Cervical smear test backlog
Deputy Martin challenged the Taoiseach about the 80,000-test backlog, the decision to offer free out-of-cycle smear tests, and whether official advice and emails were being withheld. The Taoiseach said the priority was clearing the backlog, defended the policy as aligned with CMO advice and GP consultation, and said he would check whether the email had been published; the exchange became increasingly combative over leaks and responsibility.
Last week I referred to the fact that as many as 80,000 women were waiting for cervical smear test results. There is an enormous backlog, largely because of a decision taken by the Minister for Health last April to offer a free test to every woman who requested one. For about three months we have been seeking to ascertain the extent to which the Minister sought, received or ignored official advice on this decision because it has had significantly damaging repercussions for the programme which has been very effective over a period of ten years, with 65,000 pre-cancer cases being diagnosed and a very high participation rate. It is now in something of a crisis.
The truth and the record of the House matter. The Minister's story has shifted continuously from January onwards, following questions about the issue. We need a comprehensive statement from him. On 5 February he denied that the decision had been made against official advice. He said that was not the case, but we now know that there was official advice against the decision. Professor Gráinne Flannelly's submission was one element of it. We know that there was a meeting between Department of Health and CervicalCheck officials on that day and that an email went from CervicalCheck to the Department. The Minister subsequently said the warnings had been significantly after he had made his decision. He set this out in a statement to the Dáil in February. We know that Mr. Tony O'Brien, the then director general of the HSE, spoke to the Minister on the Sunday after the decision was made and asked him to walk it back. This was before a Cabinet meeting on the following Tuesday at which the decision was formally endorsed and when a presentation was made. Were Ministers aware of all of that detail, the warnings and official advice against the decision to proceed? A number of the statements from the Minister are incorrect. There were warnings from very senior people on the day and the day after.
On 8 May I asked the Taoiseach during Leaders' Questions if there was the capacity to do the smear tests and if it was the correct official response. That was despite all of the spin that I had allegedly welcomed all of this. I asked some clear, pertinent questions on 8 May and what I said has been borne out in the fullness of time because Professor Gráinne Flannelly said the decision had fundamentally undermined the advice.
Will the Taoiseach ask the Minister to come to the House and issue a comprehensive statement outlining the sequence of events leading up to the decision, the advice he received and when he received it and correcting the Dáil record as he does so? Will he publish the email sent by CervicalCheck to the Department on the day he made his decision? What is the timeline for the elimination of the backlog? Will the Taoiseach confirm that the CervicalCheck screening programme can cope with the overload that has resulted and that there is capacity to clear the backlog while continuing with the programme?
Comment on this
The most important thing is that we deal with the backlog. There is a backlog of approximately 80,000 smear tests waiting to be examined. While the clinical risk is negligible, there are, of course, lots of women who are very concerned about their test result and have been waiting a long time for it. We need to deal with that issue. Some women are getting their result back within four weeks. The average is 15 weeks, but, in some cases, it is 33.
The Health Service Executive, HSE, and the National Cancer Screening Service have been doing a lot of work to try to find laboratories that would be willing to take on additional tests. They have sourced capacity, but they need to spec the laboratories and come to commercial arrangements with them to take on the additional tests. Given the litigious environment in Ireland, among other things, it can be difficult to get laboratories to agree to take on additional tests, but the HSE has identified laboratories that may be willing to take on the additional tests, subject to a commercial agreement and an agreement on liability should there be future claims.
The Minister for Health will be before the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health tomorrow when I am sure Deputies will take the opportunity to ask him questions. I am absolutely confident that he will be willing to answer any question he has not answered already. In my view, he has answered the questions already. There was indeed advice from CervicalCheck after the announcement had been made, albeit on the day. I think the email to which the Deputy referred has been published. I certainly heard the party's spokesperson quoting from it-----
Comment on this
It was sent after the announcement had been made, not prior to it, and it was sent by a staff member in CervicalCheck to an official in the Department. It did not go, as the Deputy claims, to the Minister for Health.
The advice from the chief medical officer, CMO, was reflected in the decision made by the Minister for Health which was subsequently endorsed by the Government. If the Deputy refers to the statement released on 28 April 2018, it states: "For any woman who has had a CervicalCheck smear test and where her GP feels she should have a further test as part of her reassurance, the Minister has asked CervicalCheck to make the necessary arrangements, including payment provision. These arrangements will be confirmed next week."
Comment on this
It was very much in line with the advice from the CMO, that if a repeat smear test was to be done out of cycle, it should be done after consultation with and on the advice of a GP.
Comment on this
Will the Taoiseach read the tweet sent by the Minister?
Comment on this
The tweet was not included in the statement.
Comment on this
I can inform the House that between 1 May and 31 December last year, when the free out-of-cycle smear test was on offer, there were 112,000 consultations with GPs but only 57,800 repeat smear tests. That proves that the CMO's advice was followed because 100,000 women attended their GPs and in about half the number of cases a repeat smear test was done.
Comment on this
The Taoiseach has said the email was published. My understanding is the email from CervicalCheck to the Department has not been published. What has been put forward is that because it is subject to a freedom of information request the Department does not want to release it. I will stand corrected if it has been published, but I would like the Taoiseach to say in the Dáil today that he will ensure it will be published before the end of the day. There is no reason it should not and cannot be published. I want that commitment from the Taoiseach because this has been ongoing for three months and the story has shifted and changed. Sometimes it is better to put the hands up on day one and admit that it was a huge error and mistake because why else would the director general of the HSE talk to the Minister and ask him to walk back? What the Taoiseach has just read is an attempt by the system to walk back from the Minister's kneejerk tweet. That is very clear from the story in The Examiner on Saturday, which is very interesting, about who leaked the text between the CMO and the Minister.
There is a very short list of people who are potentially responsible. He mentioned a request from a doctor in the National Association of General Practitioners, NAGP and then said:
Tony please see below confidentially. From NAGP. Would seem better to do this than be forced to do it??
That seems to be the rationale for a decision which has heaped hundreds of thousands of additional unnecessary tests on the system, causing an enormous backlog, and has delayed the rolling out of the new human papillomavirus, HPV test, which is far more precise and more accurate and would yield even better results for the women concerned. The record of the House unquestionably needs to be corrected and the Minister needs to make a comprehensive statement. Tomorrow's business in the House is about the wide Estimates in health, it is not specifically about this issue.
Comment on this
The Deputy is again engaging in conspiracy theories. To the best of my knowledge, the information that was on the front page of the Irish Examiner was not a leak, it was on foot of a freedom of information request made by that newspaper, so the Deputy is really into his conspiracy theories again. A newspaper makes a freedom of information request-----
Comment on this
-----it has a story and puts it on the front page and the Deputy imagines that there is a leak or a conspiracy involved but I am sure the Irish Examiner can confirm whether it was a leak or was down to good journalism by the newspaper by putting in a freedom of information request.
On what happened at the time, it is important to bear in mind what was happening at the time.
Comment on this
Women were attending GP surgeries, they were very concerned about their smear tests being inaccurate and in many cases they were asking for a repeat smear test. This was the major issue coming up on the helpline, the NAGP called for repeat smear tests, the Irish Medical Organisation, IMO signed an agreement to provide them and it was welcomed by the Opposition. Some Opposition spokespersons said that they would have done the same thing and patient advocates called for it too, so this was done for good reasons.
On the email the Deputy mentioned, I will check whether it has been published. If it has not been published, I do not see why it could not be but I will check into that. What I do know is that the email was sent after the decision was made and it was not sent to the Minister, it was sent to officials.
Comment on this
The phone calls were made beforehand and the Taoiseach knows that.
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What about the women who are waiting for their results?
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This is causing great uncertainty and stress for women. Stop being in denial about a bad decision.