Today is the sixth day of national strike action in the National Ambulance Service. Two weeks ago, I had an exchange with the Taoiseach at Leader's Questions on this issue. There were the best part of 100 ambulance personnel in the Gallery that day to listen to his reply. I spoke to many of them afterwards. Some told me they thought his comments were arrogant. Others again described his comments as ignorant. These front-line workers took particular exception to the Taoiseach's claim that the Government and the HSE could not tolerate six, seven, eight or nine unions in the National Ambulance Service. There are two recognised trade unions in the National Ambulance Service that represent paramedics. More than 500 ambulance staff have joined a third union, not a sixth, a seventh, an eighth or a ninth. It is their choice, not the Government's choice. That trade union should be recognised.

The Taoiseach tried to close the door on all of that. Maybe he thought he could demoralise the workers and that they might call off their campaign. If so, he was sorely mistaken. Those workers are on strike again today, which as I said is the sixth day of national strike action this year. I ask the Tánaiste the same question I asked the Taoiseach. Will he instruct the HSE to talk to this union? They may not be in the Gallery today but these workers will be paying very careful attention to the Tánaiste's answer. They have asked their union to convene an extraordinary general meeting in eight days, on Thursday, 18 April. I dare say that the decision they make in eight days will be shaped in large measure by the Tánaiste's answer to this question. A reasonable answer is likely to meet with a reasonable response. A hard-line answer is likely to meet with a hard-line response. I would not be at all surprised if that were to mean a significant escalation of this dispute.

Given the refusal of the HSE to negotiate contingency plans face to face with the union for the strike days, a significant escalation of this ambulance strike could bring dangers to public health and to public safety. I do not want that and the paramedics do not want that, but if it happens, the responsibility will lie at the feet of the Government, a Government which has been playing hardball for a long time with a group of key front-line workers who provide a vital service and who are merely demanding a basic democratic right. On the picket lines throughout the country, the Tánaiste's reply to the question will be eagerly awaited.

The Government has not taken a hard or a soft line on this. The Government has largely stayed out of this dispute. It is a dispute between the union concerned and the HSE. The Government's policy on trade unions and management is, where possible, to try to consolidate trade union representation to make it as structured and as functional as possible. There is a dispute here that we all want to bring to an end. Ambulance workers and paramedics do a great job in difficult circumstances. It is a pressurised job and nobody wants to see people taking strike action repeatedly, which is what has happened here. The Taoiseach and I have said that this is a matter between the trade union concerned and management. There are other trade unions involved as well that have a different view from those who are striking, and from a Government perspective we want to see a resolution to this dispute without any further days of strike action because it is causing disruption. Even though people have been responsible in putting contingency plans in place, it is something that we would like to see brought to an end as soon as possible. We also want to make sure that the relationship between trade unions and management is one that makes sense and that is not spread across too many trade unions. I have never talked about six, seven or eight trade unions but there are a number of trade unions that already represent this group, primarily SIPTU, and the relationship between management and the HSE and the existing, recognised trade unions that represent ambulance workers is a relationship that functions well. This dispute is around a proposal that seeks to change those relationships and looks to create another recognised trade union for this cohort of workers.

I encourage both sides to try to find a resolution that can bring this to a conclusion. I do not think the Deputy is going to see a Minister intervene here to instruct the HSE. That is not the way in which these issues get resolved.

The Tánaiste says that the Government has taken neither a hard nor a soft line. That is not true. In this Dáil on 12 March, the Minister for Health indicated a possible softening of the Government line when he said he was hopeful that the dispute could be settled and agreed to requests that the Department would approach the HSE about this matter. I do not believe that any approach ever took place. I think the Minister was possibly overruled on this matter and more hard-line voices have taken over, including the voice of the Taoiseach on 27 March, when he said there would be no such talks. He was standing over the union-busting stance of the HSE in this regard. That is what it is, a union-busting stance. What the Tánaiste has done today is throw out the same mantras, the same robotic approach, the same attempts to distance himself from this dispute.

In reality, the Tánaiste has given a green light to the HSE to continue to refuse to talk to this union and to adopt a union-busting approach. What he has said will have been heard on the picket lines at St. Nessan's Road, Dooradoyle, Limerick, the Kinsale Road, Cork, Davitt Road, Dublin and right around the country. I believe it will inform the choices of those workers who have requested their union to summon an emergency general meeting in eight days' time. Their decisions on that day will be largely informed by the hard-line stance the Tánaiste has taken today. The consequences of that will be at his door and at the door of his Government.

We cannot make policy decisions on the basis of threats. My understanding of what is at play here is that the Psychiatric Nurses Association, PNA, states that its industrial action is in connection with, in the first instance, a dispute over the automated deduction of union subscriptions from members' pay. The HSE is refusing to facilitate payroll deductions at source of union subscriptions to the National Ambulance Service Representative Association, NASRA, as it does not recognise NASRA. Second, there is refusal by the HSE to engage in negotiations with the PNA or to recognise the PNA as union representatives when representing its ambulance personnel members. I can understand that there are people looking to change those structures. The Government's consistent policy has been one of consolidation of trade unions, such as happened recently in the formation of Fórsa. Giving any recognition to NASRA runs totally contrary to this objective and could indirectly lead to conflict with-----

The workers decide their unions, not the Government.

Yes, workers decide what trade unions they want to be part of. That is true. The recognition of trade unions for management in terms of negotiation is a different issue and it is not an issue on which the Government gives an instruction, as the Deputy knows.

This is union busting. The Tánaiste should call it by its right name.

What I would encourage workers to do here is to try to bring this strike action to an end and to-----

Would the Tánaiste not think of approaching the HSE in order to bring the strike action to an end?

He should ask the HSE to come in.

The HSE is trying to make decisions here that ensure that it has the right kind of relationship that it needs to have with trade unions-----

Standing over union busting.

-----to ensure that workers get fair representation and to make sure there is an appropriate consolidation there so that the relationship between management and trade union leadership works for everybody. That is the objective.