National broadband plan and plan B
Deputy Mary Lou McDonald raised concerns about possible cost overruns, delay and the lack of a plan B for the national broadband plan, suggesting the ESB network as an alternative. The Taoiseach defended the scale of the project, said the final cost would only be known after bids, and stated that other options including an ESB-based approach were being considered but would cost more and take longer.
The world looked on with horror at the inferno at Notre Dame cathedral. I and my colleagues extend our sympathies to the people of Paris, in particular, and to everybody who visited and loved that great cathedral. It will be rebuilt.
The Taoiseach stated last December that the cost of the national broadband plan roll-out could amount to many multiples of what was originally estimated. He reiterated that view in recent weeks. We are again, perhaps, faced with a scandalous cost overrun that might be commensurate with the debacle surrounding the construction of the national children's hospital. It is a scenario where a vital piece of infrastructure desperately needed in much of rural Ireland is way over budget and is left at the mercy of one investor. I do not think this is an accidental or incidental occurrence because this is again the result of a botched tendering process.
The completion of this process was targeted for June 2017 but it is ongoing two years later. There is just one bidder now remaining for the contract, leaving the Government and taxpayers in an extremely precarious position. The original estimated cost for the plan was some €500 million. We are advised now that it could, in fact, run into billions of euro instead. Should that transpire, it will be a damning indictment of the Taoiseach's party's management, or mismanagement, of the public finances. We need, therefore, to get to the bottom of what is happening here. The Taoiseach stated in February that he wanted to be transparent on these matters and that he would consult with the Oireachtas. That never happened.
When will we have clarity on the cost of the national broadband roll-out? It was supposed to be announced before Easter. The Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment, Deputy Bruton, has stated that is not now going to happen despite repeated assurances that it would. The real casualties of this entire debacle are the more than 500,000 homes still without access to high-speed broadband. We still do not have a date for commencement seven years after this plan was originally announced and the commitment to deliver high-speed broadband to every home and business by 2020 is going to be broken spectacularly.
The process has been chaotic and, frankly, farcical. When will we have clarity on when people will actually get access to high-speed broadband? A specific model for the broadband plan has been adhered to whereby the project will be conducted by a private company to which ownership will revert after 25 years.
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The Government is now tied to one bidder which has the bargaining power, not the State. If the process fails or the Government decides to ditch it, what is plan B?
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Leaving households, businesses and communities in the lurch is not a policy option here.
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I thank the Deputy for the question. As I have always said about this and other projects, small and large, one only really knows what the true cost will be when the bids and tenders come in. When it comes to this project, there were three bids.
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While it is true that two of those three bidders have since withdrawn, we have three bids and we know what the cost is of the project. All three bids came in at a similar figure. When the Deputy referred to the original cost estimate of €500 million, she neglected to mention that it was for a very different project which was designed to bring fibre to 11,000 towns and villages but not to rural areas. Whenever people speak of the cost being multiples of that original estimate, it is important always to point out that it is a different project. Bringing fibre to the villages of Ireland is not the same as bringing it to 540,000 homes, farms and businesses in rural Ireland. It is quite a different project. Since this Government of Fine Gael and Independents came to office, we have seen a major increase in the number of homes with access to high-speed broadband. It was approximately 50% three years ago but is now over 75%.
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That was done by commercial companies.
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That still means that without Government intervention, approximately 540,000 homes, farms and businesses will not have access to high-speed broadband. That is why Government intervention is required. It is not a small number of people and it is not a small number of homes. It is 540,000 homes, farms and businesses and over 1 million people and it will require the laying of 100,000 km of fibre. It is a huge project when looked at in that way.
The Government needs to spend a little more time before we can bring a decision on this to Cabinet. As the Deputy knows, the cost, including VAT, contingencies and so on could be in the region of €3 billion, albeit spread over 25 years. However, the benefits must be borne in mind. It is 540,000 homes, farms and businesses and over 1 million people. It is a huge project of huge scale. We want to do this and to do it right. Before we bring a decision to Cabinet, we want to ensure there is no better alternative. Deputy McDonald asked about plans B, C and D. We are examining all of those because we want to be convinced that the business case, costs and everything else are deliverable, that it is done in accordance with the public spending code, that is being technically reviewed, that international expertise and an outside panel have examined the plan, that all of the alternative ideas being floated are not better and that it cannot be done cheaper or quicker. We want to be satisfied of all of those things, make a Cabinet decision and bring the plan before the joint committee and Dáil to allow Members to examine the facts also.
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I would not buy a smart phone any time soon.
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The Taoiseach says he wants more time but we know from a response to a parliamentary question submitted by my colleague, an Teachta Stanley, that 80 civil servants and consultants have been working on this tender process for over two years. The whole process has been marked by delay, which has generated massive frustration and impatience right across those rural homes and communities which the Taoiseach describes, and now he says he wants more time. The Taoiseach challenged me on the using the term "multiples of the €500 million" but it is the phrase he used himself. He said it would likely cost multiples and, as such, it is his language not mine. What we want to know now is the final cost.
It is astonishing that the Head of Government would take such a laissez-faire approach to final costings. He should have a view as to the affordability-----
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-----or price range. In a similar manner to his colleague, the Minister for Health, Deputy Harris, regarding a hospital that will perhaps be the most expensive ever built anywhere in the world, the Taoiseach persists with this laissez-faire approach.
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I have asked two questions. I would like an answer to them. I actually asked three on the issue of cost, the issue of timing-----
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-----and, if all else fails, plan B. We have offered the Government a plan B by way of using the established ESB network.
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The Government has resisted that thus far. Will the Taoiseach consider it if the situation comes to that?
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I really think the Deputy needs to pull out her Irish-French dictionary and look up what the word "laissez-faire" means. There is nothing laissez-faire about this at all.
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I think the Government's forensics were laissez-faire.
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We are going into this one in excruciating detail. Deputy McDonald is right - those are my words.
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A laissez-faire attitude to money.
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The final cost of this will be a multiple of the original estimate, but what the Deputy never mentions is the full truth.
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The Taoiseach said that was not the original estimate.
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There is a difference between the truth and the whole truth. This is a different project.
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The Taoiseach is wrong. That is incorrect.
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Read the roll-out document. Read the actual plan.
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The former Minister, Pat Rabbitte, announced it.
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If we look at the scale of this project, we are talking 500,000 homes, farms and businesses.
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He will have to correct the record again.
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The Government has been reading George Orwell.
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The Taoiseach will be back in here again correcting the record tomorrow. I assure him of that.
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We are talking about a project of the scale of rural electrification, which took 20 or 30 years.
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The Government will be announcing it again before Easter.
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The Taoiseach will be correcting the record tomorrow.
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We are back to Ardnacrusha again.
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In relation to plan B, of course we are looking at other options. I said that earlier - plan B, plan C, plan D.
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The problem with the Sinn Féin plan, which of course is being considered, is that, first of all, the ESB pulled out. It would cost more-----
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After the Government allowed Eir to cherry-pick. That is why the ESB pulled out.
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-----and because of rules around state aid and procurement, we could not just award it to a semi-State. We would have to put it out to tender. As to the Sinn Féin alternative, the ESB pulled out, it would cost more and it would take longer.
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After the Government allowed Eir to cherry-pick.
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Will the Government make the announcement again before Easter?
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On a point of order, Deputy Enda Kenny-----
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George Orwell is mandatory reading for the Cabinet.