I have listened with great care to the response of the Minister taking Leaders’ Questions. I am not sure if she has read the commentary reported in today’s media and listened to the interview on “Morning Ireland”. These are unprecedented criticisms of the Department of Defence and defence policy made by a retiring senior military officer. He described our Defence Forces as being dismantled and demoralised. He said the sense of betrayal across our Defence Forces is palpable.

These are extraordinary comments. In my political lifetime I have never heard a retiring Army officer say anything as strong as this. They are normally reserved people. It is extraordinary that a senior officer would also think it necessary to take early retirement in order to be free to make this comment. That makes it all the more urgent that the Government and all Members have careful regard to what he has to say. This morning he said he is leaving the Army not because he hates it but because he loves it and has been forced out.

There is a retention crisis and 9% of Defence Forces personnel are leaving. No organisation can sustain that amount of loss. It is a massive exodus. The bottom line is financial. Our Defence Forces, of course, need a total review of pay and conditions. It is on the desk of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform now. It is not as simple, however, as even doing that. If someone can earn twice as much in a meat factory as they can in our Defence Forces - as well as working much greater hours in the Defence Forces - then it is not just good enough.

Members of our Defence Forces are not permitted to join a trade union or advocate in their own interests as every other worker can do. That is no longer acceptable. I join with Sinn Féin in asking the Government to accept that. When in government, we wanted that. Let us agree to it now and allow members of the military to join a trade union. During peacetime and outside of specific missions, there is no reason we would not do that. Will the Government allow our Defence Forces to unionise? What has the Minister to say in the face of these unprecedented criticisms?

The notion that it is simply another group of public servants to be treated like all others in this context is quite simply not acceptable.

I did not hear Commandant Berry's comment but I understand the concerns of the Defence Forces because I know their members have contacted many Deputies to outline their concerns.

The independent Public Service Pay Commission was established in 2016 to provide Government with independent advice on public service pay. On the instructions of the Minister of State, Deputy Kehoe, issues of recruitment and retention in the defence sector were brought to the attention of the commission. As a direct result of that initiative, the Government tasked the commission to undertake a comprehensive examination and analysis of the underlying difficulties in recruitment and retention in the defence sector. There have been various reports in the media of what the commission will recommend but those are speculation. The Government has not received the report from the commission as yet and I cannot comment on rumours or hearsay. When the commission's report is brought to Government in the coming weeks it will be given due consideration. As I said, we are now in a better position. The recovery in the economy has provided the fiscal resources to provide a fair and sustainable recovery in the public service pay scale.

Again, it is as if the Army has not got a specific case to make. I do not think the Minister is hearing what has been said. Part of the problem is that the Taoiseach has a full-time job as Taoiseach of the country and yet he assigned to himself also the Department of Defence. The Minister of State at the Department of Defence is not an adequate replacement for a Cabinet ministerial role. I will not repeat the comments made by Commandant Berry about the leadership in the Department but suffice to say it was scathing. Is it not now time for a Minister for Defence to be created that has Cabinet rank? It cannot be a job-sharing role for the Taoiseach. Will the Minister accept that? In the unique circumstances now where morale in the Defence Forces generally has all but evaporated and any confidence in Government policy is gone, will the Minister accept the Government needs to take control again to rebuild confidence in our Defence Forces and assure people that the words uttered of appreciation for their fantastic role are matched by actions?

The Minister for Defence is the Deputy's constituency colleague-----

No. The Minister for Defence is the Taoiseach under the Constitution. That colleague is the Minister of State.

Yes, the Minister with responsibility for defence and he sits at Cabinet. I can assure the Deputy that nobody makes a stronger case for support for the Defence Forces than he does.

Did the Minister read what Commandant Berry said?

We have to wait until the commission has completed its report. There is a process in place. We have to wait for that report, which we will have shortly, and we then will make a determination based on it. A number of initiatives are being developed, including commissioning from the ranks, criteria for the re-entry of former Permanent Defence Force personnel with specific skills and consideration of increased use of direct entry for specialist posts. There is an ongoing recruitment to the Defence Forces, including a current competition for cadetship.

So the 9% leaving is neither here nor there.