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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Online pornography and safety laws

Summary

Deputy Howlin raised censorship history, a court matter, and the need to stop children accessing online pornography, then asked about an online safety commissioner and related legislation. The Taoiseach said he had to be cautious about the court case, confirmed an online safety commissioner would be included, and promised a further update.

One of the clear indications of Catholic influence on the new Irish Free State was the establishment in 1926 of the Committee on Evil Literature. It led to the Censorship of Publications Act 1929. Over the course of the following decades, many works of literature were banned, as were manuals on reproductive and sexual health. Works by Frank O'Connor, Brendan Behan and Edna O'Brien were banned, among many others. Censorship was used as a tool of social engineering and control, including for the suppression of sexual freedom. Some might like to think that this was long ago in a different Ireland but the appalling treatment of Majella Moynihan has reminded us that social policing was still ongoing in this State up to the 1980s. In countries such as Hungary and Poland, we see attempts to roll back on people's freedoms in this area. Few people, certainly no one in my party, want to see a return to anything like that regime. It does not mean, however, that there is no such thing as evil literature. Following the conviction of two 14 year old boys for the horrific murder of Ana Kriégel and her sexual assault by Boy A, it has been revealed that Boy A had two mobile phones full of pornographic images. His Internet searches in previous years are reported to have included child pornography and animal pornography.

Comment on this

I advise the Deputy that as we are dealing with a matter that remains before the courts, we need to be extremely cautious.

Comment on this

I do not intend to go into the case any further than that, other than to refer to the conclusions we need to draw from it as a Parliament. It is up to professionals to assess the impact of such material on impressionable children but we can clearly and unambiguously say that this material should not be accessible to children.

The United Kingdom has introduced a new law, taking effect from mid-July, which means that people using the Internet will not be able to access adult images or videos without first proving that they are over 18 years of age. This is intended to stop a situation reported by the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, NSPCC, where it is claimed that more than half of children and teenagers end up viewing pornography by accidentally coming across these sites. The Minister for Justice and Equality has already suggested that the Government might consider introducing a similar system of age verification here. Can the Government give us any clarity on its intentions in this regard? Will the Government commit to seeking a report from the United Kingdom by the end of this year on how well its system is working and if it is having the desired effect?

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I am aware the case is still before the courts and sentences have yet to be handed down. We must all, therefore, be very careful about any commentary on a case that has not yet concluded except to say that all our hearts go out to the parents of the young woman who was killed and also to the parents of the two boys, but I do not want to say anything beyond that.

I am aware of the relatively new law in the United Kingdom, which is designed to prevent minors from accessing pornography online. It is a matter of concern to all of us that pornography is now so accessible to young people and that many young people learn about sex through pornography, which is not an accurate representation of what is healthy in life. I agree we do not want to repeat the mistakes of the past by engaging in censorship, moralising or deciding for others what they should do and watch. The UK law is relatively new and we do not yet know whether it will be effective. The Deputy's suggestion is very good that at the end of the year or perhaps after a year or so of implementation, the Minister for Justice and Equality would make contact with his British counterpart to seek advice and a report on whether the law has been effective and whether there have been unintended consequences. We should learn from other jurisdictions and the Deputy's suggestion is appropriate in that regard.

Separately, the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment is bringing forward an online safety Bill as part of our plan to ensure that children are protected online. It will put new requirements on online platforms, including an online safety code. It will also prohibit cyberbullying of minors and harmful material such as that which promotes suicide, self-harm, bulimia or anorexia. There will also be an online safety commissioner who will certify that the codes are fit for purpose and who may have the power to order take-down in certain circumstances. In developing that legislation, the Minister will draw on some of the work the Deputy and his party have done, as well as work done by Sinn Féin and Senator Freeman, by trying to take together their legislative proposals. A six-week consultation is under way. On its conclusion, the Minister will bring the heads of the Bill to the Government and after that will consult the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment.

Comment on this

I welcome the Taoiseach's response. There are two separate items of legislation. I hope the online safety Bill announced by the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment in March will give rise to a digital safety commissioner. The Taoiseach might confirm that is the intention of the Government.

The second item of legislation is the Labour Party's Harassment, Harmful Communications and Related Offences Bill, which deals with the separate issue of online bullying. I raised this with the Minister for Justice and Equality yesterday. I had hoped the Bill would be capable of being enacted in this session. They are both important items of legislation and I would be interested in hearing from the Taoiseach the timeline he perceives for each.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

On the question regarding an online safety commissioner, the answer is "Yes". The legislation being prepared by the Minister, Deputy Bruton, will have a number of elements, the first of which is the requirement of platforms to have online safety codes, while the third will prohibit the cyberbullying of minors and the promotion of harmful content, particularly suicide and deliberate self-harm including eating disorders. To ensure that the codes exist, are fit for purpose and are properly enforced, there will be an online safety commissioner as part of that. That is the shape of the legislation the Minister, Deputy Bruton, is developing and the consultation in that regard is under way.

On the Deputy's legislation, I will need to check with the Minister, Deputy Flanagan. We will support it in principle, although I know the Minister wishes to speak with the Deputy about some amendments and I am not sure whether that has yet happened.

Comment on this

It has been done.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I will revert to the Deputy before the end of the day with a further update on the matter.

Comment on this