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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Brexit and Northern Ireland

Summary

Eamon Ryan raised briefings about Downing Street thinking, the risk of no deal and the consequences for Border counties and Northern Ireland. The Taoiseach said he relied on public EU positions rather than anonymous briefings, and warned that any referendum process in Northern Ireland could become a proxy Border poll.

Yesterday's briefing from Downing Street, presumably from Mr. Cummings, said that the Taoiseach thinks he cannot lose by refusing to compromise now and that the British will have to put the offer back on the table whatever happens after 31 October. However, the UK Government says that the deal it offers now will not be revived, that its duty of sincere co-operation would be "in the toilet" as it was put and that we do not understand the electoral dynamics over there. We are electoral nerds and we follow UK politics. We have as much understanding of the form of the various parties in the UK as we do that of Manchester United, Liverpool and Chelsea in the UK premier league.

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What about Wolves?

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We understand their-----

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Mind the wolves.

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Would the Deputies have a bit of sense? The people of the country are observing this Parliament in action. Would Members please respect that fact and allow the Deputy to ask the question without interruption and allow the Taoiseach to respond without interruption?

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I do not mind levity but this is serious stuff. This is the issue of today beyond any historic moment I can remember. I can recall 2010. We are in a similar moment because what happens here in the next few weeks is important for the people of this country. This is deadly serious. I was using an analogy to show that we know politics in the UK inside out, intimately. I have ten first cousins over there and I talk to them regularly. We follow politics there and know exactly what the game is and what is being played out in this regard.

I know we have to be careful about chasing the latest media stories but the Tánaiste was in Brussels last night and I presume he can confirm the reports today that the EU may now be willing to accept a consent approach in Northern Ireland. They say it would be based on a double majority, which I think we would have to agree to. We could not have a situation where one particular party could have a veto on proceedings. I am interested in the Taoiseach's position on this. Our party set out clearly during the summer that maybe there should be a referendum up North, not a Border poll about sovereignty or unity but one on the specifics of a deal. If that can be done instead, there is a mechanism in Stormont, for all its failed structures. Our party does not abide by this one side or the other approach; we have representation from both sides of the community up North. What is the Taoiseach's view on a double majority consent approach, if Europe has moved to accept that? Does that unblock that difficulty?

If the UK Government says the offer will not be back on the table, I presume our request will be the same and I presume, if the consent issue can be agreed, there will not be customs arrangements on this island. That is all that holds us now from a deal. After the UK's electoral dynamics have played out, even if the Tories are returned to office, we would have the House of Congress on our side saying that any trade deal would not be acceptable unless our issues were addressed and, given the solidarity we have in Europe and the reports of Chancellor Merkel's comments yesterday, we can be reasonably confident of European support. Electoral dynamics or not, I presume our request will stay the same. It is not a unity play; it is not to demean Unionism but to recognise that there will be no customs variation come what may.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I am aware of the various anonymous briefings we are reading of in the newspapers about me, Ireland and Chancellor Merkel and I do not want to make much response to anonymous briefings of that nature. I do not think much of anonymous briefings, whether from Downing Street or from my own ranks. If people want to brief, they should do so publicly and openly. There has not been any change to the EU negotiating position. We decide our guidelines at EU Council meetings and they have not changed and they certainly cannot change until the summit next week at the very earliest. As far as the Government is concerned, we do want a deal. We are willing to work hard to get one. We will work until the last moment to get one but not at any cost. We are absolutely open to proposals that take into account the democratic wishes and views of the people of Northern Ireland on consent and democracy. We need to make sure, however, that any such arrangements are workable. It is a sad fact that the Northern Ireland Assembly has not met for three years and has met for only half of the time that it has been in existence. We have to bear that in mind in any clause on consent or democracy. We also need to bear in mind that the people of Northern Ireland voted by a clear majority to remain in the EU and when polled, they say they are in favour of the backstop that was negotiated with Prime Minister May's Government. Any solution that we come to or that I can recommend to this House has to have the support of the people of Northern Ireland and they have given their views on this - they do not want to leave the European Union, they would accept the backstop and they do not support the proposals currently on the table from the British Government.

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I encourage the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste to try to get a deal in the next week. There was a very good briefing this morning in the AV room from the Border people who are opposed to Brexit and the harsh reality of what a no-deal crash out would bring, particularly in Northern Ireland and in the southern Border counties. There would be massive unemployment and all that might bring. If there is instability now when there is relatively full employment, what would the political direction be if it went that way?

The Taoiseach is correct that we should not pay too much heed to briefings. However, the UK Government says the offer will not come back and it is going to plough on. This House needs to be clear that our request respects Unionist consent and that it is not about claiming dominion in any way at all but it is intended to protect our people on both sides of the Border. Our request relates to the remaining issue of the customs arrangement and we should make clear that we are going to try to get a deal in the next week and, even if we do not get that, our request will remain the same no matter what happens in the coming month and year.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I read the article written by the Green Party leaders in Northern Ireland a few weeks ago. I thought they made a helpful and constructive suggestion and their case was well made. We do, however, need to bear in mind that referendums are unusual tools in politics and sometimes when it comes to a referendum, people do not necessarily answer the question that is being asked. One concern we must take into account were it to come to a referendum in Northern Ireland is that, even though it would not be a Border poll on the ballot paper, there is a risk that it might become a proxy Border poll and cause division among the communities there. That is not a reason not to do it but it is something that we need to bear in mind in any of our considerations.

Part of the difficulty at the moment is that the position of the UK Government is that Northern Ireland must leave the EU customs union and be part of the UK customs union no matter what the people of Northern Ireland think. That is its position and that creates a grave difficulty for us because we want there to be a deal that respects the wishes of the people of Northern Ireland and the people in this Republic too.

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