Voting system integrity
Deputy Mary Lou McDonald raises the seriousness of votes being cast for absent colleagues and questions whether it was an isolated incident or part of a wider pattern. The Taoiseach agrees the matter goes to the heart of democracy, says investigations are under way, and says the House should await the reports.
I want to raise the controversy that has struck at the integrity of the voting system of the Dáil. Over the weekend, as we know, it emerged that Deputy Niall Collins voted on behalf of Deputy Dooley on six separate occasions. Subsequently, questions have been asked of other Dáil Deputies as to whether they cast votes for absent colleagues.
This has been portrayed by some as a controversy over who sits in what seat - a game of political musical chairs, Deputies sit in the wrong seats and press the wrong buttons. We must acknowledge that the real world outside looks on gobsmacked at the fact that highly-paid officials cannot manage to sit in the right seats or hit the right buttons. I suggest that we collectively decide that, from hereon in, we will sit in our designated seats and endeavour to press the right buttons. That would resolve the concerns over musical chairs.
The real story here is much more serious and alarming because Deputies have cast votes on behalf of colleagues who are not present before also casting their own vote and, thereby, voting twice on a given question. Article 15 of Bunreacht na hÉireann states that the decisions of this House are determined by a majority of the votes of Members who are present and voting. Our own Standing Orders echo that position. Standing Order 77 explicitly sets out that Members must be present to vote. We are elected to make laws, amend laws, pass budgets and make decisions that impact society and the lives of real people. Measures have been voted on in this House that have denied respite care, taken away home help hours, prevented meaningful action on runaway rents and I could go on. It is because of the gravity and reach of our decisions that we must be present and vote. That is why it is spelled out so explicitly in the Constitution and Standing Orders.
The behaviour of Fianna Fáil Deputies has discredited the Dáil. It conveys a complete lack of regard for the Oireachtas and institutions of governance. It demonstrates, above all, an absolute disrespect for those who have elected those Deputies and who they represent but it is even more serious than that because if the behaviour of the Fianna Fáil Deputies represents a pattern of behaviour in that party, it calls into question the validity of decisions and votes taken here. That is how serious it is to vote on behalf of a colleague who is not present or to vote twice on any given issue.
I ask the Taoiseach for his response to this. Beyond the investigation that has been ably taken up by the Ceann Comhairle, how are we to establish whether this practice is, and has been, widespread? How will we deal with the consequences of that?
Comment on this
I want to say once again that I believe the integrity of the voting process is absolutely central to our democracy. When people go out to vote and cast their ballots on election day or on referendum day, they expect the procedures to be followed properly. It would be a crime if an ordinary citizen cast a vote on their own behalf and that of someone else. To vote on behalf of somebody else is impersonation and to vote twice is a crime. It would be no defence to say that it did not matter because the person who won the election did so by a wide margin anyway. We must apply the same standards to the Members in this House as apply to ordinary citizens going out to vote on an election day or referendum day.
Deputy McDonald rightly quoted the Constitution. Bunreacht na hÉireann states that any votes that occur in this House must be decided by majority vote cast by Members who are present and voting. There is a world of difference between someone being present in the Chamber, although not in one's seat, and not being present in the Chamber or the building at all. To allay any future concerns or confusion, all Members should be in their seats for all votes from now on.
I welcome the Ceann Comhairle's comment earlier that there will be an investigation and report this week and I very much welcome that. I understand that, separate to that, a complaint is going to be assessed under the ethics Acts. I believe that is done by the Committee on Procedure and that will allow for a hearing. I also welcome the fact that there will be statements on this issue on Thursday and those Deputies who admitted to voting on behalf of others, or allowing votes to be cast on their behalf when they are not in the Chamber, will have an opportunity to make a personal statement at that time and will perhaps also agree to take questions.
Comment on this
Over the course of the weekend I was asked by somebody in my constituency whether it would be okay if they showed up at a polling station and voted for their friend because their friend could not make it. Of course, the answer was, "No, absolutely not." There cannot be one law or standard for citizens and the electorate and a different one for Deputies. The real concern is beyond the antics of Deputies Niall Collins and Dooley and others in Fianna Fáil. Is this a pattern of behaviour? Was it an isolated incident, or is there some unwritten, implicit or explicit agreement between some Deputies that it is all right to cast a vote for colleagues who are not present? That needs to be established. I absolutely accept, a Cheann Comhairle, that you will do your work diligently in respect of last Thursday's turn of events, but the big question for the people is whether it is how we do our business here. That is what citizens are asking. Aside from not sitting in the correct seats and the almost farcical comedy it was, is something else at play? How will we establish if that is the case? Beyond the inquiry and investigation that will be carried out by the Ceann Comhairle, how will we establish whether this is a pattern of behaviour engaged in by Fianna Fáil in the House and how will we deal with the matter? What is the Taoiseach's view, as Head of Government?
Comment on this
The Deputy asked some very pertinent and relevant questions that deserve answers. Unfortunately, I cannot give them because I cannot speak on behalf of Fianna Fáil Deputies or any individual Deputy. It is agreed by all of us that an investigation is required. The Ceann Comhairle has announced that it will be carried out by the Clerk of Dáil and that there will be a report this week. Separately, I understand some members of the public have made complaints under the ethics Acts which will result in a statutory investigation to be held by the Committee on Procedure. We should allow those investigations to take place and I hope they will be thorough and robust. It is welcome that there will be an opportunity to make statements and have a debate on the matter on Thursday.