The sexual abuse of a young child is a most vile and horrific act. The life-changing trauma imposed forcibly on the child is lifelong. It takes an extraordinary degree of resilience, courage and dignity to survive and cope with the lifelong challenges imposed by such trauma. Unfortunately, this country has witnessed a terrible history of child sexual abuse within many institutions and families. That is why there is a fundamental moral obligation on the State to protect children and respond resolutely and transparently when allegations of child abuse emerge and incidents of child abuse occur, particularly within national organisations. I understand that during tonight's edition of "RTÉ Investigates", details of which have emerged, former scouts in the Catholic Boy Scouts of Ireland and the Scouting Association of Ireland who were abused will express their concern, annoyance and anger at the fact that Scouting Ireland is being allowed to carry out its own review of complaints of sexual abuse within the organisation. Last year Scouting Ireland stated in a briefing document that it gave to the Minister, Deputy Zappone, that the organisation's internal historical review had found that some perpetrators "moved from one local group to another" and "in one case moved between two different scouting organisations". The case of David O'Brien, a former scout leader and convicted sex offender, is an example of this practice. By his own admission, he had sexually abused up to 60 boys, most of whom were young cub scouts. He had evaded justice by moving around in the 1970s and 1980s. He pleaded guilty to sexually assaulting Paul O'Toole who has said:

That was the moment my childhood ended. It was where a normal childhood should have went on. But mine stopped.

Colm Bracken who was victimised by two scout leaders, including David O'Brien, has said the abuse was his first sexual experience. He continued:

They shattered my soul. They killed my soul.

It is clear from the Scouting Ireland briefing document that files went missing. It took many years for Scouting Ireland to commence the investigation. It has confirmed that there are indications in its internal review of "extensive, prolonged and organised child sexual abuse" and of how "adult members who preyed on children were protected". There were repeated failures to take effective action. There are approximately 400 alleged sexual abuse complaints, involving 247 alleged perpetrators. There is no question about the fact that Dr. Geoffrey Shannon agrees with the former scouts who were abused. In the light of the scale of the abuse that occurred, as revealed in "RTÉ Investigates", will the Taoiseach give a commitment that the Government will establish a transparent and independent statutory inquiry? Is the Government prepared to do this?

We all agree that crimes against children are among the most heinous. Crimes of a sexual nature against children are particularly unspeakable. As a society, we need to do all we can to protect children and bring perpetrators to justice. I understand tonight's edition of "RTÉ Investigates" will cover some cases of historical abuse in scouting organisations from the 1970s and 1980s. It is always very harrowing to hear survivors describe awful experiences of abuse when they should have been safe, protected from harm and able to have a normal childhood. The Government has been aware of these issues for some time. It has been engaging with Scouting Ireland to ensure its current child protection and safeguarding policies are fit for purpose and greatly enhanced by comparison with those that applied in forebear organisations, including those mentioned by the Deputy. To that end, Scouting Ireland is working closely with Tusla. I was encouraged to hear my colleague, the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Zappone, recently report her satisfaction with the progress Scouting Ireland had made on safeguarding and governance. However, she recognises that further work remains to be completed in that regard.

Keeping children and young people safe always has the highest priority. It is vital that everything continues to be done to ensure the thousands of children who attend scouting organisations throughout the country are safe, protected and free to enjoy themselves and avail of the many benefits that accrue from participation in such organisations. A great deal of work is being done to ensure there are no ongoing concerns about Scouting Ireland, to assure parents whose children become scouts that their children are safe and protected and to make sure the child protection standards that were not in place in the 1970s and 1980s when they should have been are now in place. The Government will consider the establishment of a commission of investigation or a statutory inquiry of some nature. I will discuss the matter with the Minister. As is always the case when it comes to statutory investigations, we need to tread carefully and get it right. Under no circumstances would we want to carry out a statutory inquiry that would jeopardise any potential or ongoing prosecution. It is possible to undertake a statutory inquiry without putting prosecutions in jeopardy. It is a question of getting the terms of reference right. I will discuss the issue with the Minister on foot of ongoing events, including tonight's programme.

When similar allegations and cases emerged in the church, there was never any question of the church conducting its own internal investigations. When I initiated an inquiry in the diocese of Ferns on the basis of allegations that had been made, I did not seek anybody's permission. It was not contemplated that the diocese would investigate itself. The same happened in the cases of the diocese of Cloyne and the diocese of Dublin and in other organisations. The Government of the day initiated independent statutory inquiries into abuse in the sport of swimming and institutions such as industrial schools. I would have been involved in some of those decisions. Dr. Geoffrey Shannon, a well respected expert in child law and a former special rapporteur for children, has made it clear that no organisation against which allegations have been made involving former members of that organisation should investigate itself. That is a very basic principle. To put it mildly, a mistake has been made in this instance. I am saying this with the best of intentions. I will not engage in anything of a partisan political nature. I simply believe Scouting Ireland cannot be allowed to investigate itself. In saying that I am not casting any aspersion on the current leadership of the organisation. I respect the efforts people in the current leadership are making.

I also respect that thousands of people enjoy scouting and it is important that we protect them. It is imperative for the victims and survivors that an inquiry be statutory, independent, transparent and public and that it should not be conducted by the organisation itself.

The Deputy is correct that when it comes to matters such as this and crimes of a sexual nature against children, it is not adequate for an organisation to investigate itself. Of course, other investigations may get under way, such as a Garda investigation because these are crimes which can be prosecuted. We need to bear in mind that this abuse occurred in the 1970s and 1980s-----

I forgot to point out that it is not just about the 1970s and 1980s, as will be made clear by the programme to be broadcast tonight.

-----in organisations that no longer exist, having been replaced by Scouting Ireland. The Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Zappone, commissioned former Senator Jillian van Turnhout to undertake a review of governance and safeguarding in Scouting Ireland in May 2019 and Ms van Turnhout made several recommendations that have been implemented in full by Scouting Ireland. I will take the Deputy's comments on board and will discuss the matter with the Minister, Deputy Zappone. We will come to a decision in the near future on the best way to proceed, which may include a statutory investigation.