Thank you, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.

I will get to all Members.

I am losing time here.

Yes.

The Central Bank's report on private motor insurance reveals a shocking story of continuous rip-off of the people of Ireland, in particular young people, by the insurance industry. It is also a damning indictment of the Government's weakness, paralysis and failure to protect people from a greedy and exploitative industry and the Government's inability to change the story over the past eight years. At times, the Government seemed to side with the industry and accept its explanations. This is the first comprehensive study of premiums and cost claims in Ireland and it undermines the narrative of the companies and their claims about spiralling pay-outs and increased claims being the major factor underpinning growing premium increases. It found that between 2009 and 2018, the average cost of claims per policy fell by 2.5%, while average premiums jumped by 42%. It is even more alarming that in the past five years, from 2013 to 2018, average premiums went up by 62%. Meanwhile, the industry generated an average operating profit of 9%, twice the level of profitability seen in the United Kingdom. We know personal injuries claims, the Personal Injuries Assessment Board, PIAB, and legal costs are also factors. Last week, the Taoiseach told me in the Dáil that motor insurance had come down by 20% or 30%.

In the long term.

This report says they went up in the past five years by 62%. The Taoiseach, the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Justice and Equality have had a hands-off policy on this for years. Was the Government's response due to ignorance or gross incompetence? Did the Government know what was going on in recent years and the degree to which people, in particular young people, were being ripped off while the Government failed to protect them from this industry and to take the measures and the decisive intervention that would have made a difference? The Taoiseach's comments to me last week reveal a level of disconnect with the reality on the ground that is quite shocking. Does the Taoiseach accept that the Government has failed to protect people from a greedy industry that has spun a false narrative to maximise profits? Why has the Government not intervened to strengthen and restore the Personal Injuries Assessment Board to centre stage in moderating the cost of claims? The Government did not protect that institution against vested legal interests which sought to undermine it. Was the Government aware of the scale of the rip-off? Why have change and reform to deal with this been so slow in recent years?

I thank Deputy Martin for raising this very important issue. What I said was that the cost of motor insurance had gone down by about 25% since it peaked in 2016, which it has. That is what the figures show. It went up and has gone down by approximately 25% since 2016.

In the long term.

Our objective now is to make sure that it continues to go down in the coming period.

What is the Taoiseach's source?

I think it is the Central Statistics Office but I will provide Deputy Martin with the source.

The Taoiseach thinks it is the CSO. This is very important. He is speaking to the Dáil. He said 20% or 30% last week.

Will Deputy Martin let the Taoiseach reply?

The Taoiseach should be allowed to speak without interruption.

I will provide the Deputy with the source before the end of the day.

It is the CSO.

It is a published number. I believe it comes from the CSO, but I will provide the Deputy with the source by the end of the day. I am sure he will be good enough to retract his earlier remarks when he sees the data I produce. As I said earlier, the cost of motor insurance has gone down by approximately 26% since it peaked in 2016.

It went up before that. Now we need to make sure we drive it down further because the cost of motor insurance is still too high in Ireland for young drivers and all other drivers. Our objective is to make sure we bring down the cost of insurance over the next couple of months and years.

The report published yesterday is the report of the national claims information database. I commend the Central Bank for its work on publishing the report. It is worth noting that this report was produced only as a consequence of Government action on insurance. I compliment the Minister of State, Deputy D'Arcy, in particular, in that regard. The national claims information database was set up on foot of a recommendation of the Government's cost of insurance working group because we did not have enough data and transparency on insurance. That is why we asked for the report to be produced. It would not have been produced had there not been Government action. It carries out an in-depth analysis of annual trends of non-life insurance claims. This is seen as crucial in developing an understanding of how claims costs impact on premiums and, in particular, an understanding of the relationship between the price paid by the customer for motor insurance and the cost to insurance undertakings. This is the first report and it covers the ten-year period between 2009 and 2018. It highlights the importance of the cost of claims to the level of insurance premiums. However, it also highlights the highly cyclical nature of the insurance market and, in particular, the growth in insurance premiums relative to the cost of claims and the growth in profitability of the motor insurance underwriting sector since 2015. The report provides information on how claims are settled, the time it takes, and the legal costs associated with the various settlement channels. This information had not been previously available. Therefore, the conclusions from this part of the report are just as important as the premium claims element.

I believe the report shows that both the insurance and legal centres have a role to play and questions to answer with regard to the difficulties we have faced in recent years when it comes to the cost of car insurance. It appears that insurers underpriced in the early part of this decade and then increased premiums beyond levels that were needed to cover losses incurred, and consequently are now making significant profits. At the same time, the legal costs associated with the litigation settlement channel seem disproportionate when one considers that the report indicates the award levels for those settlements under €100,000 are not much higher than equivalent settlements of the PIAB. In addition, the length of time to settle the claims is nearly two years longer than in the PIAB, which in itself drives up the cost of insurance. The Central Bank will finalise its report on the feasibility of expanding the database to cover employer liability and public liability as the next step.

I wish the Taoiseach the very best of luck in saying to the thousands of young people who have been ripped off over recent years that at least we compiled a report to tell them something they knew all along. That is essentially what the Taoiseach is saying. His source is essentially the CSO, which is asking the industry to present the figures. Is it not? This is a definitive study. It is not what the Government has been doing, namely, coming in here last week stating complacently that it is all sorted and that costs are going down by 20% to 30%. The cost went up 62% in five years. What in the name of God was the Taoiseach doing? What were his Ministers doing?

It is not just the motor industry that is affected. All week, it has been about crèches and childcare facilities, some of which will be closing this week because of inaction. The Minister of State claimed to be shocked over premiums increasing. Businesses have been ringing alarm bells because of the excessive rip-off in insurance that has been occurring with no rational explanation. Of course there are fraudulent claims and issues arising over the high cost of litigation in the courts but, again, the Taoiseach did nothing about it. He failed to protect the PIAB from the vested interests that sought to undermine it. The PIAB was an effective intervention brought in by Ms Mary Harney well over a decade and a half ago. It dramatically upset vested interests and brought costs down but the current Government has stood by. It has taken a hands-off approach. The situation is now that, right across the board, from crèches to childcare, we are in crisis in terms of the capacity of businesses and people to survive.

We all acknowledge in this House that the cost of insurance, be it motor insurance, public liability insurance or employer liability insurance for business people, is too high. Our objective is to bring down the cost of insurance. How do we do it? We do so through the reforms that have taken place and more that will take place in the future. One, for example, is the establishment of the national claims information database. The reason the Deputy is raising this question today is that we now have information we did not have in the past. We have that information only because of action taken by the Government on foot of the work led by the Minister of State, Deputy D'Arcy.

We reformed the PIAB, which the Deputy mentioned, by means of the Personal Injuries Assessment Board (Amendment) Act 2019 in order to encourage greater compliance with the board's process. In contrast with the Deputy's claim that we have somehow weakened the board, the opposite is the case. We have strengthened it by means of the 2019 legislation. There is also stronger Garda action, through the Garda National Economic Crime Bureau, to crack down on fraudulent and exaggerated claims. Even today we are taking action on insurance costs because the Judicial Council has come into existence. The commencement order has been signed and the Judicial Council has been formally established. There is now a committee of judges that will look at the book of quantum, at the level of claims and at the awards being made by the courts in order to see if they are appropriate.

How long will that take?

That is my point.

Will the crèches open this week because of that?

I call Deputy Pearse Doherty, who I know will co-operate.

The party is over lads.

There has been a moment of enlightenment and clarity on the part of those in Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil, who have finally realised the nature of the spin they have been swallowing from the insurance industry for the past couple of years. The reality is that all this information was available to the Taoiseach and Deputy Micheál Martin, and their Deputies, if they wanted to look at it. We did not have to wait for a comprehensive report from the Central Bank to tell us of the spin and blatant lies from the insurance industry that were peddled by the Taoiseach and Deputy Micheál Martin on the floor of this House.

Last week, another insurance provider, Ironshore Europe, one of the biggest insurers in the childcare sector, withdrew from the market. The Taoiseach may be aware of Ironshore, although I believe that none of his Ministers has reached out to that company or to any childcare providers. Nothing has been done about the fact that some childcare operators are likely to close their doors and will not be able to reopen in January 2020. Ironshore was the insurer of the four crèches that were completely exposed on an RTÉ programme in the summer. Those crèches are the subject of a number of litigation cases. There has been an injunction in the courts seeking to prevent Ironshore from withdrawing insurance cover for them. Those crèches will no longer be allowed to operate or be trusted to supervise and care for children.

We are now left with only one insurance provider in the sector. That company is asking childcare providers for approximately triple the amount they paid for insurance in the past. Some of these providers are not-for-profit organisations. I spoke to representatives from one provider and discovered that its premium will increase from €1,800 to almost €5,000 in January. The provider in question simply does not have the money and does not know what it is going to do when it closes its doors on Friday. Where will it find the money? Will it be able to reopen in January? What will happen to the 80 children to whom care is provided by the organisation to which I refer and which is a centre of excellence for those with additional needs?

The Government has done nothing in respect of this issue. I tabled a parliamentary question last week regarding what engagement there has been with the childcare sector and what meetings the Minister for Finance, Deputy Donohoe, has had with the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Zappone, on this issue. There has been absolutely no action whatsoever. The Central Bank issued its report yesterday and it has provided clarity for both parties here. That report completely rebuts the spin of the industry and is a damning indictment of the Government, which has refused to hold the industry to account and which has done worse by peddling the spin put out by the industry. As I did in the case of the Minister for Finance last month, I ask the Taoiseach to stop making the claim that insurance premiums have dropped by 27%. Do they not understand what is involved here? I have made the point on the record of the Dáil on numerous occasions that the Central Statistics Office, CSO, asks about one particular policy. The data are there across all claims and they show that, from 2016 to 2017, insurance premiums went up by 15% and by a further 2% in 2018. The figure is going up by 17% rather than down by 27% as the Government has claimed.

The leader of Fianna Fáil addressed this House on 1 October and claimed that the compensation culture is rife. Last week, he blamed the culture of claiming at any cost for the rising cost of insurance. The facts indicate clearly that the cost of claims has actually decreased by 2.5% since 2009. I will conclude by stating that the number of people claiming has dropped by 40% and the number making personal injury claims by 20%. Will the Government please stop swallowing the guff from the industry and join me and others-----

I call the Taoiseach to respond.

-----in taking on this industry in order that we can reduce premiums for motorists and businesses alike?

That was quite a diatribe that went way over time. I do not think I heard many questions in that particular contribution.

The Taoiseach is going to hear more diatribe.

I did hear the Deputy accuse me of lying. I think that is unparliamentary language.

I accused the industry of lying.

No, the Deputy accused me of lying as well.

Let us get this clear, Taoiseach. I am not using up the Taoiseach's time. I heard the Deputy accuse the industry of lying. If we can establish that he accused the Taoiseach of lying, then I will deal with that.

No. I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle for being helpful. I accused the industry of spinning and lying. I accused the Taoiseach of swallowing its spin and regurgitating it here on the floor of the Dáil. I am asking him to retract the comments and the claim that insurance premiums have dropped by 27%-----

I did not want to give you the opportunity to come in again. I want to be fair.

-----because he now has comprehensive proof in tables Nos. 15 and 16 of the Central Bank report that they are actually skyrocketing again.

Deputy Pearse Doherty, please. I have to be fair to the Taoiseach if we establish it was said, but quite honestly it was not my interpretation.

It does not matter as we can check the blacks later.

Yes.

It does matter.

I am sure the Deputy will withdraw the remark if that is what he inadvertently said.

We will check them afterwards.

I have never been soft on the insurance industry or on the legal industry when it comes to the issue of insurance; not in the slightest. Our efforts have always been to bring down the cost of insurance, including motor insurance for drivers, as well as employer liability and public liability for businesses. That is our objective and why we brought around these reforms which led to this report we are discussing here today.

On the issue of childcare facilities and crèches, I acknowledge there are many parents worried that their childcare costs will go up in the new year and that their crèche may close. We are aware of this. The Department of Children and Youth Affairs is engaging with the sector and with the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform to see what we can do about it to ensure we do not see crèches closing in the new year. We are particularly conscious of those difficulties with regard to the price or availability of insurance, particularly liability insurance. It is acknowledged that the recent announcement of the withdrawal from the market by one of the insurers providing insurance to childcare providers is a worrying development. This only happened in the past two weeks.

Early learning centres and school-age care services must re-register with Tusla before 31 December. To do so, they must provide proof of an existing insurance policy. They do not need to show proof of future insurance policies. They need to prove they have an existing insurance policy in order to register on 31 December.

They cannot be expected to open without insurance, however.

The Taoiseach, without interruption.

We understand the concerns of providers as they do need to have insurance cover to provide services.

Childcare services are mostly private businesses and are expected to cover their costs from the income they receive. Insurance costs were not raised as a significant issue with the Department of Children and Youth Affairs until the recent withdrawal of one of the underwriters on 6 December. The Department of Children and Youth Affairs and Pobal offer a case management system for services suffering sustainability difficulties, mainly in the community childcare sector. Services should contact their local childcare committee to access available supports such as advice or business planning. For community providers, financial supports can also be made available after an assessment. This process is managed by the childcare committees and Pobal.

The Government cannot compel insurance companies to stay in the Irish market. Consequently, we need to ensure the insurance market is attractive for such insurers in order to generate greater competition and thus improve overall current capacity and the pricing position. Critical to achieving this is bringing award levels for so-called “soft tissue” injuries down in this country and more in line with other jurisdictions. The report of the NCID, national claims information database, corroborates this with the cost of injury claims increasing by 54% since 2005.

The Taoiseach stands accused again of completely spinning on behalf of the industry. Will he, if he has read the report, accept table No. 14? Does he accept that motor insurance premiums have increased every year since 2016? Will he accept that the number of people who are making claims has reduced by 40% and personal injury claims reduced by 20%, facts which dispute the compo culture argument?

Again, he misdiagnosed the issue concerning the childcare sector. If the Government was actually monitoring this properly, it would know that the Hyde and Seek scandal has led to a serious issue with insurance. There was a High Court injunction which prevented the insurance company from withdrawing its insurance policy to the four crèches. There are 53 cases being taken against this insurance company because of what happened within that sector. These are issues which were not revealed by Tusla or any regulation but by good investigative journalism. It was not because of the high levels of award. It was because this area was completely unregulated and because of all the factors that were exposed by the “RTÉ Investigates” programme.

Does the Deputy have a question?

I am begging the Taoiseach on behalf of not only the childcare sector, soft play areas or motorists, but many other sectors which will be affected by this in the new year. There need to be Cabinet decisions on this.

It needs a Cabinet sub-committee, not a talking shop, but an action point-----

The Taoiseach to respond.

-----where action is taken to take on this industry. The Government needs to stop swallowing the industry's spin. Let us have serious action.

The Taoiseach to respond.

There are enough ideas from us and from the Alliance for Insurance Reform and others that can actually deal with this crisis.

The Deputy is very vocal on this issue. He is very good and well-informed on the issue, which is why I am so disappointed that his solution is a Cabinet sub-committee. A Cabinet sub-committee - I know all about them - will not bring down the cost of insurance for any driver or business person in Ireland.

He is saying they are fairly useless.

What is required to bring down the cost of insurance is action from Government-----

If the full Cabinet could not do it, one would hardly expect a sub-committee of Cabinet to do it.

-----and that action is taking place.

Deputies.

Only today, for example, the Judicial Council came into existence-----

The full Cabinet could not do it.

Let the Taoiseach finish.

-----with a committee of judges that can now look at the cost of claims, potentially bring them down-----

There is no voice in Cabinet on insurance.

Please. The Taoiseach without interruption.

Forget it.

There is no voice at Cabinet on insurance.