Apple tax ruling statements
Deputy Boyd Barrett sought time for statements on the forthcoming General Court ruling in the Apple tax case. After discussion, the Taoiseach agreed the Business Committee should facilitate statements next week, and the proposals for Wednesday and Thursday business were agreed.
It is not agreed. I wrote to the Business Committee this morning stating that tomorrow or on another day this week, there will need to be statements on foot of the ruling, which will come out tomorrow, of the General Court of the European Union on the Apple tax case. This is not a small matter. We will get a ruling tomorrow as to whether the decision of the European Commission to award Revenue €13 billion in unpaid taxes plus interest from Apple will be upheld. Regrettably, the previous Government, with the support of Fianna Fáil, appealed that decision and supported Apple rather than taking the €13 billion we need. Whatever about the previous Government, in the context of Covid and its costs, and when we are looking at a bill for this country of up to €20 billion, it would be nothing short of economic treason to appeal a decision that awards those tax revenues to this country when we need them desperately to cover the bill for the Covid crisis. We need to hear, as do the people of this country, from the Government this week, immediately after that ruling. I hope it will tell us it will not further support Apple in its efforts to avoid paying taxes of such magnitude owed to this country, taxes which could transform our economic and financial situation fundamentally. That is what I believe should happen, and the Government should agree because this is too serious a matter with implications too enormous for this country.
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Standing Orders 29, 31 and 33 make it clear that the taking of this type of business is a matter for either Private Members' time or Government time. Do Members want us to convene the Business Committee on the matter? Is this likely? I understand that Government is under intense pressure to get through its business, but there is-----
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There is time on Thursday.
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It is the Business Committee that orders the business of the House, trying to balance the need for Government and Private Members' time. There have been two attempts to change the business. I appreciate that Members are entitled to do that.
By the way, the €13 billion would not be available even if there were a decision to uphold the Commission's position. The Government's position is not to support anybody or any company other than to say this was not state aid and that the independence and credibility of our Revenue cannot be undermined. The idea that the €13 billion will be available next week is just not true and is a dishonest presentation of the situation. The Deputy can take it that whatever happens, and I do not know what will happen with the decision, the money is not readily available to Ireland. I think there will be others in the queue. Of course, nothing can be accessed until the full appeals mechanisms are exhausted. There is a potential appeal by another party to this that would basically mean that no one could access the funding.
That said, I would have no issue with a debate on the Apple ruling.
It should be an informed debate. I am not sure how lengthy the judgment will be tomorrow and how ready the Dáil will be to have a meaningful debate on it tomorrow or Thursday. We should have an informed debate on it. I would welcome that and I do not see any issue, but there is an exhaustive legislative programme here and the reason for that legislative programme is to underpin the economic recovery and to deal with Covid, particularly getting as much assistance as we can to small businesses and medium-sized companies in the economy through the Credit Guarantee (Amendment) Bill 2020 and other Bills.
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Is it reasonable, having regard to Deputy Boyd Barrett's proposal, that the Business Committee would consult with a view to making some time available on Thursday or early next week for a discussion on this?
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If the Business Committee wishes to consult, I can see what ministerial availability there is. The only time we have is late Thursday evening, from a quick look at the schedule. If you want to consult and advise me, I will see what ministerial availability we can organise.
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As long as that is a commitment that the Government will facilitate statements.
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I will not commit to Thursday night but I have no difficulty with statements.
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No later than early next week.
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Not "could". Will be.
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I think next week is more sensible because one will be able to examine the judgment. That is my only point. In the immediacy of tomorrow and Thursday, people might not get the full-----
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The probability is that the time will be available next week and the Business Committee should agree that.
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If that is a commitment from the Government.
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The Taoiseach is so committing. Can I take it that the proposal for dealing with Wednesday's business is agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Thursday's business agreed to? Agreed. On the Order of Business, I am conscious that we have only 18 minutes now. I call Deputy McDonald.