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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Pubs closure until August

Summary

Deputy Healy-Rae condemns the decision to keep pubs closed until 10 August and says publicans are being treated unfairly. The Tánaiste replies that the closure is driven by rising virus incidence, says pubs and nightclubs will not open before 10 August, and stresses the decision depends on future infection numbers.

Is the Government decision, based on medical advice, to keep our pubs closed until 10 August? This is a retrograde step. Our hard-working publicans and, very importantly, their customers as well, are being treated very unfairly.

In the interest of keeping things proper and correct, I declare at the beginning that I am connected to a person who owns a pub. Our public houses have served us very well over the years. The Vintners' Federation of Ireland, VFI, is a very responsible organisation representing very responsible, small businesspeople who were very much looking forward to opening next Monday on the Government's word. The Tánaiste should remember what the Government has done to them. Their pubs are now stocked, work rosters have been organised, and people have organised babysitters. They are ready to open their doors and turn on their lights but last night the Government pulled the rug out from underneath them. I want to look at the reasons.

NPHET are saying they have looked internationally at what has happened in public houses throughout the rest of the world and that when they opened, there was a spike or increase in cases of the virus. However, we are missing one very important point here. We have always said that Irish pubs are unique, that our country pubs are unique. They cater to smaller groups of people and they know their customers. All they wanted to do was open up in a small way so that local people could come in from the countryside to have a drink. It must be remembered that there is an awful lot of difference between Dame Lane and Ballinskelligs, or between Dame Lane and Portmagee, or indeed any other part of the constituency that I represent.

The Government has really missed the bigger picture, in that opening these pubs absolutely would not have increased the occurrence of the virus. I would like the Tánaiste to explain on the record the difference between a person inside in a public house with a pint of Guinness in one hand and a toasted cheese sandwich in the other and a person in another pub with a pint of Guinness and no toasted cheese sandwich?

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They could be very hungry.

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The Tánaiste is a doctor. Will he explain to me why eating a sandwich or not poses a public health danger to a person drinking a pint? It is a crazy decision by the Government. I really feel very bad. Today, on behalf of every publican, be it a man or a woman or a younger person in charge of a pub looking forward to opening next Monday, I want to tell the Tánaiste they are extremely angry about the way they have been treated by the Government. They are responsible people. They are more interested in public health than anyone else. Remember they have been minding people's health for many years because they are in charge of what I would call well run public houses-----

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Thank you, Deputy Healy-Rae.

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-----where they know their customers and they want to mind them. They were going to mind them next Monday but now the Government has pulled the rug out from underneath them.

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Leo Varadkar The Tánaiste Fine Gael

I thank the Deputy. I can understand what a hammer blow this news is for publicans and for people who run pubs, nightclubs and other venues, who had expected and hoped they would be able to open next Monday. I do not think I am the only person in the House who was looking forward to freedom pints next week but, unfortunately, this is not possible. It is not possible for a good reason, which is that the incidence of the virus in Ireland has increased. It is still very low, at roughly 20 cases a day at four per 100,000, which is the eighth or ninth lowest out of 31 countries in Europe, but the trajectory was a matter of concern. It was going in the wrong direction.

This has not been largely due to international travel despite all the focus on it. It has been 90% due to our own behaviours, with people in close contact with one another in confined indoor spaces breathing on one another, coughing on one another and touching one another, and as a result of this we have seen a number of clusters, often linked to house parties and social engagements. This is a matter of concern and this is why NPHET gave the Government the advice it did and the Government acted on it, which was to defer the opening of pubs and nightclubs at least until 10 August and bring in new rules on house parties, which is to say that people should not invite more than ten people to their house and from no more than four households. This is the advice.

We know from all over the world, and from China and Asia, that it is not outdoor gatherings, for example like what happened in Dame Lane, which should not have happened, where the virus spreads but it is in indoor small confined spaces with ten or 15 people passing it to each other through close contact and being together for a prolonged period of time. This is house parties and small pubs, unfortunately. That is the truth of it. It is also potentially restaurants, if restaurants act as if they are pubs and concentrate more on selling alcohol rather than people having a meal with a bit of alcohol and getting out within an hour and a half.

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I thank the Tánaiste. What the Government has done is create another problem. These small businesses that were looking forward to standing on their own legs next Monday and opening their doors will now be faced with the financial burden of another 25 days with the doors closed. What proposals does the Government have, and I am not talking about loans but grants and substantial assistance to be made available to these businesses, to allow them to carry on their businesses when the Government eventually decides to let them open? Now the Tánaiste is saying it will be 10 August. I received many calls late last night and very early this morning from people asking how sure we are the Government will actually allow that because it has broken its word already. The Government raised their hopes which was a horrible thing to do. The message that has gone out now throughout the world is that people can come from a hot spot but they cannot have a hot drop because the Government has left the doors closed. It is a poor decision. If I thought that it was a good idea medically of course I would be behind it but I do not.

Particularly in rural Ireland, we feel as though we are being blamed and getting the brunt of the anger the Government had when it saw what happened on Dame Lane-----

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Thank you, Deputy.

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-----and any decision made with regard to house parties-----

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The time is up.

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We welcome anything that would control that sort of nonsense but please, for God's sake, recognise the fact that our publicans are responsible people who run good houses.

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Please, Deputy, the time is up. The Tánaiste to conclude on this matter.

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Leo Varadkar The Tánaiste Fine Gael

I thank the Deputy. I have no doubt the vast majority of publicans in our country are responsible people who want to open their businesses and I also want their businesses to open. However, I do need to be clear that what we are saying is that pubs and nightclubs will not open any sooner than 10 August. We are not saying they will open on 10 August, we are saying they will open no sooner than 10 August and it will depend on the numbers and how the virus behaves, to use Tony Holohan's term, between now and then. When we published the plan, and I was the one who published it as Taoiseach at the time, to reopen business and society, we made it very clear on day one that it was a plan that could be accelerated if things were going in the right direction, paused if things were going off-line and reversed if needed to be. We were always upfront about that from day one.

In terms of the help we can offer the pubs to open when they do reopen, the wage subsidy scheme is in place and we intend to extend it. They do not have to pay commercial rates and we are looking at whether we can extend this also. They will benefit from the restart grant. I am looking at whether we can make the restart grant better and more attractive, particularly for those who need it the most, which is the hospitality sector including our pubs.

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