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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Defence Forces retention and budget

Summary

Deputy Berry raised serious Defence Forces staffing shortages, including ships tied up in Cork, and warned of worsening readiness. He then questioned the defence budget and claims about unspent funds being returned; the Tánaiste acknowledged retention problems and said the “handing back” claim was a myth, with funds reallocated within the Vote as normal.

I wish to raise some defence matters with the Tánaiste. There is almost universal acceptance that there is a severe and worsening staff retention issue in the Defence Forces. All we have to do is look at the naval base in Cork where two naval ships are tied up. These vessels are unable to put to sea because there are not enough sailors to crew them. I have also been reliably informed that a further two ships will be tied up by the year end. Almost half the fleet, four ships, will be at anchor, unable to put to sea on the eve, perhaps, of a hard Brexit.

If this were to happen in any other EU country, I suspect heads would roll. EU countries value their sovereignty and take their obligations to police their territorial waters seriously.

This issue requires urgent action.

While I have pointed out the problems, there are reasons to be hopeful and almost cheerful. Having interacted with the new Taoiseach and the new Minister for Defence over the past number of weeks, I detect a genuine and sincere shift in attitude towards solving this problem, but we need to focus on it. It would also be remiss of me were I not to highlight the support that we have received from the Opposition benches. There is cross-party support for fixing this issue. There is almost a consensus at this stage.

I have two questions for the Tánaiste. The Minister for Defence, Deputy Coveney, is on record as suggesting that a package of financial measures will be brought to the Cabinet some time during the summer to alleviate this issue. I would be grateful if the Tánaiste could indicate approximately when that will take place.

The second issue I would like to raise relates to the budget, which I will discuss the next time I stand.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Tánaiste Fine Gael

I thank Deputy Berry for his question and his ongoing interest in and commitment to matters relating to the Defence Forces. It is true that we have a significant recruitment and retention challenge in our Defence Forces, and have had for five or six years, if not longer. It is something with which we have struggled to deal. Recruitment is not so bad, but retention poses a considerable difficulty. We want a reasonably high turnover in our Defence Forces, but the turnover rate in Ireland is much higher than it is in other jurisdictions. We are unable to keep people in the Defence Forces because they are often very capable and qualified and go on to much better jobs in the private sector. We need to do more to encourage them to stay on. It is something the Minister and the Taoiseach are committed to addressing.

Regarding ships being tied up, it is not that unusual in other countries. I understand that, at any given time, the Royal Navy is only able to send approximately half of its ships out to sea. Naval life is not easy and all European countries struggle to recruit seamen and other naval service personnel. However, that it is a problem in other countries is not a justification and does not make it okay.

Actions have been taken. For the past couple of years, there has been considerable pay restoration for members of the Defence Forces in line with public sector pay increases. Pay bottomed out around 2013, but it has been increasing consistently since then in line with pay restoration across the public service. There was also a package of increased allowances for members of the Defence Forces, which was implemented a couple of months ago.

As to whether there will be a further package, the Minister for Defence is working on that. However, I do not have the details and I am unsure as to when it will be brought to the Cabinet. We want to do it, but difficulties arise in this regard. As Deputies know, the House passed legislation to reverse FEMPI and underpin the existing public sector stability arrangement for all public servants. Any increase in basic pay or general allowances that is outside the public sector stability agreement or a ruling of the Labour Court cannot be done by the Government. They would require the House to legislate and I imagine there would be knock-on claims. I doubt that Deputies would be willing to say that no one else in the public service had a legitimate claim. That must be borne in mind.

Comment on this

I thank the Tánaiste for that clarification. My follow-up question relates to the defence budget. Based on percentage of GDP, we already have the smallest defence budget in the EU. Compounding this problem has been the practice in recent years of significant Department of Defence Vote moneys being returned to the Central Fund at year end. The size of that return depends on one's interpretation of it, but I am particularly concerned this year. Most of the Deputies present will know that we have voted through Revised Estimates for nearly all Departments in the past few weeks with the notable exception of the Department of Defence. I deduce from that that expenditure under the Department of Defence's Vote has not reached 70% or 80% of its threshold yet. I am concerned that a significant sum of money will still be unspent by the end of the year. Will the Tánaiste provide assurances or a suggestion that all the moneys given to the Vote at the start of this year will be used for their intended purpose and none will be handed back unspent at the end of the year?

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Tánaiste Fine Gael

There is a long-standing myth - I will be polite in using the word "myth" - that the Department of Defence hands back millions of euro to the Central Fund every year. I do not know whether it is an error or mischief on the part of those who continue to repeat it, but it is not true. While it is the case that money is reallocated from one part of the Department's Vote to another, that is normal. Anyone who has been in the Oireachtas for long enough or who has run a Department knows that one will often move money from one part of the Department's budget to another. Sometimes, money is moved from the pay budget to pensions. Sometimes, it is moved from the pay and pensions budget to buy new equipment, improve barracks, etc. Overall, however, the Department of Defence almost always spends all of its budget.

In 2014, its budget was €900 million. That year, €100,000 was handed back. Its budget was €900 million the following year, when €400,000 was handed back. It was €905 million the year after, with €100,000 handed back. In 2017, the budget increased to €921 million, with just under €1 million handed back. In 2018, the budget increased to €946 million, with €2.7 million handed back. Last year, the budget was more than €1 billion for the first time in a long time, with €100,000 handed back. Taking those years in the round, the Department hands back approximately 0.08% of its funding. As such, the idea that the Department has handed back a great deal of money to the Exchequer in any recent year is false. However, money is reallocated from one budget line to another within the Department of Defence Vote regularly.

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