Covid payment travel checks
Mary Lou McDonald criticised the travel advice and challenged officials checking pandemic payment recipients at airports. The Taoiseach defended the guidance, denied any targeting agenda, said genuine cases could be reviewed, and explained the statutory instrument was introduced on 10 July without coming before Cabinet.
Last week, we had the debacle around the Government's green list. Its travel advice was, and is, confused and ambiguous and relies on citizens using their best judgment. Personally, I would prefer that nobody travel abroad this year but the fact remains that we have been given advice only, not a firm instruction, much less a legal requirement. Despite this, the Government has taken it upon itself to send officials to our airports seeking out people on the Covid payment who have decided, in their best judgment, to travel. One section of our population is being singled out without notice or warning. On the basis of confused advice, the Government wants to punish and make an example of people who lost their jobs because it closed down the economy to deal with the pandemic.
Many of these are the same people who were excluded from the Government's stay and spend initiative, so they will not be helped to holiday at home. Many had booked and paid for their holidays months ago but, because of the Government's ambiguous travel advice, they may not qualify for a refund and may lose substantial sums of money. In a final insult to these people, they will be penalised if they do travel, even to one of the green list countries. Every which way they turn, they lose.
Will the Taoiseach acknowledge that his Government's travel advice does not have the force of law? Will he accept that the travel advice is confused as to the difference between green and non-green countries and on whether one needs to restrict one's movement on return? Will he accept that the Government has uniquely chosen those who have lost their jobs for punishment should they choose to travel abroad? I want the Taoiseach to accept this is wrong and, more importantly, to reverse this decision.
I understand this decision was incorporated in social welfare guidance early on Monday morning, just 24 hours after the Tánaiste set out his position on RTÉ. The Tánaiste also claimed that the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection gets information from the airports. At this morning's meeting of the Special Committee on Covid-19 Response, however, the Dublin Airport Authority categorically denied it collects such information. Its representatives said they had no details as to who collects such data in its facilities. Will the Taoiseach clarify who is collecting this information? On what legal basis is it collected? Will this now stop? This is yet another episode in an unfolding farce.
Comment on this
There is no debacle with regard to the travel advisory, as the Deputy suggested. In sharp contrast to the decisions taken in Northern Ireland by the Deputy's party, the decisions taken in the Republic of Ireland have resulted in some of the most restrictive travel guidance globally. The results of this are there for all to see.
It must be acknowledged by all that the pandemic unemployment payment was an unprecedented and fair response to the Covid-19 emergency. At the height of the emergency, in May, as many as 600,000 people were in receipt of that payment. As the economy has begun to reopen, people have returned to employment and the number claiming the payment has fallen to 287,000. By any yardstick, it was a massive national response.
Deputy McDonald endeavoured to paint the picture that somebody is out to get somebody or that the State has adopted a punitive approach. That is not the position of the Government. It has been anxious to help people who were made unemployed as a result of Covid-19, hence the unprecedented numbers who received this very special payment which the Government has decided to continue until the end of March, albeit at different levels.
The Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection has carried out compliance inspections at ports and airports since 2012, as the Deputy is well aware. These continue. The primary purpose of these checks has always been to ensure that social welfare payments are only made to people who reside in the State and who comply with the regulations. Since March of this year, more than 2,000 pandemic unemployment payment claims have been closed as a result of checks carried out at Dublin Airport. The Department has informed me that the vast majority of these cases related to individuals leaving the country permanently rather than holidaymakers. These people no longer live here and are not entitled to this payment so it has been stopped. Most people would say that this must be checked on an ongoing basis. It is also important that this type of thing be dealt with in respect of schemes more widely. The Department is very clear on that.
In the context of the overall picture, we are talking about a handful of cases in which claimants have had their payment suspended because of the changes the Department made in the context of the Government's travel advice. The Government has consistently advised that the safest thing is not to travel. It has not been encouraging or incentivising travel and the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection was anxious to ensure the holiday arrangements for recipients of social welfare payments were in accord and alignment with the Government's travel advice.
We are talking about a very small number of the 287,000 who continue to receive the payment.
Comment on this
There is no agenda in terms of endeavouring to penalise any one sector as opposed to another. I recall the former Labour Party leader, Joan Burton, when she introduced the legislation to empower social protection inspections, referred to "the fight against the small number who scam the system", and said it was "important that we address this; otherwise, confidence in the system among ordinary contributors and claimants who only claim what they are entitled to will be eroded." She was referring to those who leave the country, who are not living here and who do not come back. In the ordinary course of those compliance checks, the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection says the vast majority of those who lost their payments are people who were not coming back.
Comment on this
I am sure the Taoiseach is not suggesting that those 287,000 recipients of the Covid payment are scamming the system or that they qualify as scammers. I would like him to make that very clear. These are people who have lost work and hope to return to work as soon as they possibly can. They are out of work because we are in the throes of a public health emergency. It is the case that the Government is singling out a section of the population for special and negative attention, because the fact is that there is no penalty, financial or otherwise, for citizens who are not on the Covid payment should they choose to travel to one of the green list countries, yet the Government is saying to all of those citizens who are out of work, through no fault of their own, that they will face a very significant sanction, that being the removal of their single and only source of income. That is a very harsh measure to take.
Comment on this
It does feel like the Government is picking on a very particular section of the population. The Taoiseach avoided each and every one of my questions, so let me put a very straightforward question to him.
Comment on this
An individual in receipt of the Covid payment will be penalised by loss of that payment should he or she travel abroad. Will the Taoiseach tell us when that decision was taken and who decided to change the social welfare guidance? Was it the Tánaiste or the Taoiseach and was it discussed at Cabinet? More to the point, will he tell us if he sees fit to end this ludicrous, farcical and deeply unfair situation?
Comment on this
In the first instance, Deputy McDonald should withdraw her inference that I suggested 287,000 people were trying to game the system. I never said that and she knows I did not say it. She should not have attempted to put those words into my mouth. She should disengage from that type of behaviour in here. It is unworthy of her. It does not deal with the issue. She is entitled to raise it but she should not attempt to do what she did.
Comment on this
They were the Taoiseach's words.
Comment on this
It is not right. It is not fair politics. The whole purpose of introducing the Covid-19 pandemic unemployment payment was to help people through Covid-19. It developed very strong social solidarity. We want to continue to help people in that situation. That is why 600,000 people in the country were on the payment in May and why 287,000 are still on it. I would like the cases of genuine recipients who might not have been aware of this to be reviewed. That is something I would like to do because I do not wish to undermine any individual or take from their legitimate entitlements. It is clear that social protection had to ensure proper compliance for those who are leaving the country for good at the moment, and who are still receiving the Covid payment, in deference to the taxpayer.
Comment on this
A statutory instrument was introduced on 10 July. Statutory instruments do not have to come before the Government and this one did not come before the Government. The Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection states that it had been saying this in response to numerous queries on and off since early July. That did not seem to capture anybody's attention at the time, including that of the Opposition, bar The Sunday Business Post of last Sunday.