PUP travel restrictions and airport checks
Deputy McDonald challenges the Government for discriminating against pandemic unemployment payment recipients over holidays and airport inspections. The Taoiseach defends the policy, says compliance checks at airports are lawful and long-running, and insists the numbers affected are small and reviews are available.
Welfare and solidarity payments should not be abused. We are all in agreement on that point. If there is any malpractice or fraud, it must be addressed. The circumstances we now face do not relate to corruption or malpractice but to a decision taken by the Government to openly and blatantly discriminate against workers who are on a Covid payment. Having issued inconsistent and confused travel advice, the Government now says that workers on a Covid payment cannot take a holiday that they may have paid for 12 months ago and that may be to one of the Government's green-list countries, without fear of losing their income. The Government's confused travel advice also means those people are not guaranteed a refund if they cancel that holiday. Its approach is discriminatory. The billionaire classes and tax exiles have been accommodated and there is not a chance of a penalty for them; they have been facilitated. The Government's utter hypocrisy and unfairness is galling. It is my strong view that nobody should take international trips. I also believe the travel advice should clearly and unambiguously set that out, but that is not the case. If the Government is determined to penalise people for travelling abroad, it must have universal penalties, not ones targeted at one section of the population, because the unfairness of that speaks for itself. The Government's lack of understanding and empathy for people who have been through the mill and lost their jobs is remarkable. The Taoiseach said that we are all in this together, but it is clear now that we are not.
Tomorrow, the Government will bring forward further legislation, this time on vulture funds. A vulture fund lost a court case in April and now the Government is introducing legislation to address the concerns and needs of such funds. It is hugely worrying that this measure is being sneaked through in Covid emergency legislation without any pre-legislative scrutiny, but that is this Government all over. It certainly makes it clear in whose interests it acts.
I asked the Taoiseach yesterday to state the legal basis for Government actions such as inspections at our airports and the sourcing of information from people travelling abroad. It seems to me that the Government acted outside the law. Yesterday, the Taoiseach said he favours a review of cases where people have had their money stopped. Who will carry out that review? When will it take place and will people get their money back?
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The Deputy loves throwing accusations about the place and assertions in relation to the Government's overall policy. She is basing her claims, and is trying to throw away the political consensus that has served the country well in dealing with Covid-19 over the past five months, on the fact that as few as 100 people have had their pandemic unemployment payment, PUP, suspended because of overseas holidays. I understand and appreciate the need for robust political debate, but I also believe there is a need for honesty and a degree of perspective in this debate. Last night, this Government passed legislation to underpin and strengthen the PUP. In the jobs stimulus programme, we agreed to extend the payment to the end of March 2021, at a cost of approximately €2.2 billion. It has already supported more than 600,000 people. That is not a Government that does not have empathy for those who have lost their jobs because of Covid. The Deputy said that she accepts the need for compliance at airports. I take it she does because those checks have been in place since 2012.
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As Deputy Kelly said, they were there before that as well. They have been there for a long time. The fact that we are extending this payment until the end of next April shows our commitment to helping and supporting people. Alongside that, we have also put together a very substantial job activation programme under the July stimulus to help people secure alternative employment. All we are getting from Deputy McDonald is play-acting. She is deliberately undermining what has been a genuine effort to reach out to people who lost their jobs as a result of the pandemic. The people on the PUP are not clamouring to travel overseas. That is a wrong impression to give. Nobody is attempting to single anyone out. We all know the overseas travel numbers are at a record low level, and people on the payment are doing their best to make it through this crisis in one piece. We know that 90% of people who were checked at airports lost the PUP because they were permanently resident outside the country. Surely the Deputy is not suggesting that all of those people should get their payment back, or it is wrong somehow that people who are living permanently abroad should get the PUP. We are saying they should not. What is the Deputy's position on that?
The Deputy has some nerve to mention confusion about travel. Just like Sinn Féin's policy in the North, this Government agrees and advises that there should be no unnecessary travel overseas and wants people travelling from various overseas countries to restrict their movements upon their return. Also like Sinn Féin's policy in the North, the Government has published a list of countries for which people returning from essential travel will not need to restrict their movements. The difference between this Government and Sinn Féin's policy is that whereas we have restricted that list to 11 countries, Sinn Féin welcomes unrestricted overseas travel from 58 countries. That is what Sinn Féin signed off on, and yet the Deputy has the nerve to come in here and talk about the Government's confusion on travel. That is the Sinn Féin position, which the Deputy signed off on without equivocation.
Comment on this
The Taoiseach has three minutes per question.
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These are the facts and the Deputy must know them. She is being completely disingenuous in her attack on the Government on this issue.
As regards her question about reviews, the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection is there to hear reviews. We are not out to undermine anyone on the PUP or to single them out in any shape or form. I want to make that very clear. On the contrary, the pandemic unemployment payment is working and has worked, along with the wage subsidy scheme, to underpin the economy. The latest retail sales figures for May and June are evidence of how these interventions have worked to underpin the economy.
Comment on this
It is the Taoiseach who has broken the consensus and the notion that we are all in this together by sending inspectors to airports seeking out those on Covid payments. That is what has happened. I put it to the Taoiseach that in so doing, the Government acted outside the law. I would like him to state to the Dáil the legal basis upon which individuals were approached to establish their social welfare status. Did the Department have reasonable grounds to do so, or did inspectors simply make an assessment based on the look of someone? Was everybody asked and checked? The Taoiseach concedes that travel is at a record low and that there is no widespread clamour among those on Covid payments to travel overseas; far from it. Why then has the Government targeted them in this way? I too wish that nobody would take a trip abroad. That is my position and I think it is the correct position. However, the Government's advice is confusing to the extent that those who may have paid for their holidays 12 months ago are not in a position to get a refund. Now they face the prospect of losing their Covid payment if they travel, which is their sole source of income.
I put it to the Taoiseach again that if there are penalties for travelling abroad, they should be universal. If the Government chooses, as it has chosen, to target those on Covid-19 payments, that is discriminatory and unfair and should not happen. I want the Taoiseach to state what form this review will take. Is it a special review?
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Will it be carried out by the Department, when will we see results from it and when will the small number of people involved get their money back?
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Is she? I have been hearing different messages from the Deputy on this for the last week or two.
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Regarding the compliance issue, the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection carries out compliance inspections at ports and airports throughout the year. My notes state it has been doing so since 2012. The legal basis for the control and compliance checks is section 250(16) of the Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005, as amended by section 17 of the Social Welfare and Pensions Act 2012. Since March 2020, some 2,000 PUP claims have been closed as a result of checks carried out in Dublin Airport. That is the note I have from the Department. The vast majority, I understand up to 90%, of PUP cases stopped as a result of this work relate to individuals leaving the country not as holidaymakers, but on a permanent basis. Is it Deputy McDonald's position that that should not happen? Is it her position that those who leave the country permanently should continue to receive pandemic unemployment payments? That seems to be what the Deputy is saying.
Comment on this
They have been going out for years and well the Deputy knows it. What she has tried to do in here is to turn an issue which involves 100 or 200 people into some massive political philosophy or ideology that is out to get people when, in fact, that is not what the Government is about. The Government has extended this scheme to the end of April. It currently caters for up to 287,000 people and we have underpinned and strengthened it to give additional protections to deem those people to have made their social contributions. That is what this is about, and we will help people and work with them to help them source alternative employment, given the difficult circumstances people are undoubtedly in.