Dublin restrictions and political confusion
Deputy Kelly challenged the clarity of the new restrictions, especially the position on Dublin and the Taoiseach's comments on earlier lockdown decisions. The Taoiseach said the plan followed NPHET advice, denied any major deviation, and rejected claims that the Government was sowing confusion.
Obviously, today is a very important day. Since the Government basically gave up on the roadmap, this is the day we were all waiting for. I acknowledge all the work that has been done in regard to the reopening of schools and educational establishments. We in the Labour Party acknowledge all that work and the work in regard to the ongoing challenges in the health services. However, there is an inherent contradiction in what was brought out today, and this is not playing politics. This is not a five-point plan; this is a 5.5-point plan. It is the talk of the country because we need clarity. We cannot have a situation where we have Dublin at two and a bit, and they sort of get a yellow card, but if they behave themselves, in a short space of time they may go back to where all the rest of us are. It is like something Orwellian, where some people are more equal than others. If the Taoiseach said that to the people in Laois, Offaly and Kildare, they would not agree with him.
We have to protect everyone's lives equally throughout this country. The virus does not distinguish between Dublin and Kildare, Laois or Offaly. Therefore, I am encouraging the Taoiseach, by tonight, to give full clarity. I agree with, and we in the Labour Party support, the five-point plan - let me be very clear about that. I even had conversations with the Taoiseach to the same effect some time ago. However, I do not support a 5.5-point plan. By tonight, the Taoiseach should make his decisions and give clear advice once and for all as to where Dublin is at.
Is it at two or three? I listened to the Minister for Health, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, give a radio interview afterwards. He was asked about travel outside of Dublin for people from Dublin and he said "Yes". However, these additional restrictions were only produced after the Taoiseach's press conference. They state that those living in Dublin "should be encouraged to limit travel outside the region". They also list a number of other things, including third level institutions, which I would discuss further if I had time.
I was taken by the Taoiseach's incapacity to answer Mr. Gavan Reilly during today's press conference. He asked the Taoiseach how we can know that the five levels will not be modified again. The Taoiseach said they will not because this has been adopted today, but then he qualified it by saying it might be worth Mr. Reilly's while to talk to the CMO. Why was the CMO not present today? That would have been helpful. Will the Taoiseach please give clarity on this issue by tonight? There are five phases, and we support the five phases. It is the right thing to do. However, 5.5 phases is not the right thing to do because it sets a precedent. What happens to Louth or some other county in a few weeks if it reaches a certain threshold and people ask why it cannot be treated like Dublin? That is the real issue the Taoiseach is dealing with today. I urge the Taoiseach to provide that clarity by tonight so everyone can move on and support him.
Finally, will the Taoiseach also clarify that he and the Government did not deviate in any way from NPHET's advice in drawing up this plan? If they did, will he give details on what that was?
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I acknowledge the Deputy has been very constructive in acknowledging the progress made in returning children to schools and in supporting the five-phase plan. I also recall that around the time the restrictions were being implemented in the midlands, when there was a rise in numbers in Tipperary, the Deputy was the first out publicly to declare there would not be any severe restrictions in Tipperary.
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On a point of clarity, I was informed by the representatives - it was not me making a statement.
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I was only restating what I was told by your guys.
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I am glad the Taoiseach is on the ball on something.
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It seems that people have different views outside their own counties generally across the House.
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That is completely false and bogus.
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Also, it is not two and a half, or two and a bit. NPHET gave us advice on Dublin and we acted on that advice. We were in transition from the first model to this new model that is in the new plan. NPHET gave advice prior to it being adopted by the Government during the week. The modification relates to wet pubs and the matches. That is it. There is no big deal here, in one sense. It is a very big deal for the pubs and their livelihoods, to be fair, but in terms of the broader overall plan the issue is that we got advice from NPHET and we did not want to ignore it. The alternative was to move to level 3, if that is what the Deputy is suggesting. That is the advice. We did not get advice from NPHET on Thursday to move to level 3. The Deputy wants the Government to move to level 3.
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That seems to be the implication. We accepted NPHET's advice today in respect of Dublin. NPHET will meet again on Thursday and it could give other advice in that regard.
I think the Deputy was unfair in what he said about a question I was asked. I said that the CMO can go into more technical detail. To be fair, this goes back to the Tipperary question. The numbers were going high in Tipperary and the Deputy was worried that there would be a lockdown, to call a spade a spade. However, there are different iterations and different patterns which do not necessarily mean that when one looks at the volume of numbers one should jump to a certain conclusion. That is what I meant, and the CMO and public health officials will say the same thing. Not every county will be the same. Numbers will emerge in certain counties and there might be reasons behind those numbers that demand a specific type of response which is different from a response in a different county. That is just the reality, and that is how the public health advice will emerge and evolve over time.
On the more fundamental point, I accept the Deputy's point that he agrees with and supports the five levels. I appreciate that. It is positive. It has to be for six months.
That will give people clarity. The Government makes decisions based on advices on a number of matters. The broad thrust of NPHET's advice on the five levels has been accepted, as has the advice on congregation and so on.
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The Taoiseach's own Minister rang me at the time to tell me that Tipperary was not going into lockdown. I ask the Taoiseach to correct the record on that.
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That is what he said to me. He actually asked me to relay that information on my local radio station. The Taoiseach should ask the Minister about it himself and then he might come in here to apologise and correct the record.
However, there are bigger issues here. First, will the Taoiseach answer the question on whether people in Dublin should travel outside the county? The Minister for Health, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, has made statements on the matter which are contradictory to this document. Second, the Taoiseach did not answer the question as to whether there was any specific NPHET advice on this plan which the Government did not adopt. If so, will he tell us what that advice was? If not, that is fine. Third, I was very disappointed that, although I asked for it on numerous occasions, this document was not elderly-proofed or proofed for people with disabilities. We need greater clarity on how we will ensure that people who are vulnerable or elderly can have some quality of life during these phases. That is a glaring omission. Finally, does the Taoiseach accept that the Tánaiste's comments regarding a Covid vaccine have created even greater confusion? As I was driving to Dublin this morning, I spoke to an elderly gentleman who said to me that this was great news and there must be some information available to the Government that is not available to the rest of us.
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Does that not also breed confusion? Does the Taoiseach accept what the Tánaiste said?
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It is great to keep throwing out the word and hoping it sticks. That is what some of these contributions are about. The Tánaiste was very clear. He said very clearly that he hoped there would be a vaccine in the first half of 2021. That is what he said to us this morning. That got translated into something else but that is what he said to us. Most people are saying there could be a vaccine in the first half of 2021. The WHO believes there could be a vaccine around March or April but no one is definitive about that because we cannot be. It depends on clinical trials and how various candidate vaccines progress during the research and clinical trial phases. The only good news is that an unprecedented number of companies, more than ever in our history, are chasing and researching a vaccine for one virus. We need success on that front in order to enable us to get beyond the very damaging impact of Covid-19.
The advice from NPHET is very clear that Dubliners are encouraged not to travel outside of Dublin. NPHET is encouraging people not to travel if possible. That is the advice as of now.
As regards supporters and so on, NPHET was not overly prescriptive. There was a discussion on some of those modest issues but there was no major deviation in the broad thrust of the advice.
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That is fine. I just want to know what the deviations are. That was my question.
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I accept that. Why is the Taoiseach afraid to tell us what the deviation is?