Meat plants and Covid testing
Deputy Doherty raised safety in meat plants, accusing the Government of putting profits before workers’ health and of suspending testing without evidence. The Tánaiste defended the plant protocols and testing regime, and the Chair eventually called for order and adherence to questions and replies.
Ba mhaith liom ceist na monarchana feola a ardú leis an Tánaiste. Tá imní mhór ann anois faoi na figiúirí sna monarchana seo. Tá na gnáth-oibrithe ag fulaingt. Tá an cuma air go bhfuil brabús níos tábhachtaí ná an baol sláinte agus beatha na n-oibrithe seo. Tá an dearcadh ann nach bhfuil an Rialtas ag déanamh a dhíchill ná go leor le déileáil leis seo.
Instances of Covid-19 are, regrettably, on the rise. The situation in Dublin is profound and, no doubt, we will have the opportunity to discuss this further throughout the course of the day. Underpinning our response to dealing with the virus must be a proper testing and tracing system. We in Sinn Féin have been raising this issue consistently because it is central to how we handle the situation.
Another issue we have been raising is meat plants and I raise it again today. Meat plants have been the site of at least 44 clusters throughout the State and at least 1,600 cases of Covid-19. They were the principal reason for the localised lockdowns in Kildare, Laois and Offaly. From a freedom of information response to Hannah Quinn-Mulligan of the Irish Farmers' Journal, we know there were 226 cases associated with one plant in July. We understand that plant is in Cork and that it was never closed down. Yet last week, testing in meat plants was suspended. Yesterday, we learned of another outbreak in a meat plant in Waterford and this is causing huge concern. At least 28 cases are associated with this cluster, more tests are pending and hopefully the HSE's infection control team are on the ground. Perhaps the Tánaiste will let me know if that is the case. Local media in Waterford reported that earlier this week, workers from the plant were being bused to work on a packed 50-seater bus. Every seat was full, it was standing room only and people were standing in the aisles. At that time, there were already cases confirmed in that plant. That is shocking. The meat barons are playing with people's lives in the interests of profit, plain and simple, and they are getting away with it. Why? What hold do the meat barons have over Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil?
This should be contrasted with how they are treating pubs. There were 6,800 inspections of pubs over one weekend, yet there have only ever been five clusters associated with pubs, according to the figures released last night. Outbreaks in meat plants have accounted for one third of all workplace clusters. The situation in Waterford has been going on for a number of weeks but it was only confirmed that this was happening yesterday. That is not good enough. This situation is replicated throughout the State. Before he assumed office, the current Taoiseach called for greater transparency regarding where clusters were happening. Will the Tánaiste accept that the HSE should now publish the details of clusters in businesses in public settings? Having to rely on the rumour mill is not good enough. Communities deserve clarity and transparency. They deserve better.
Why are the meat plants getting away with this? Why are workers being crammed into buses? Why was a plant with 226 associated cases not shut down? How many meat plants have had serial testing carried out this week? Will the Tánaiste publish the information of where clusters are in relation to public settings?
Comment on this
I thank the Deputy. Meat plants, as we all know, are at high risk of becoming clusters. There are many reasons for that but we know that is the case in Ireland and around the world. We have known that for a long time and that is precisely why there are specific protocols in place in relation to meat plants. That is why there is a joint committee on it and why surveillance testing happens in meat plants. Even though the positivity rate is very low, it is still done as a precaution, as it is in nursing homes and some other places. While it was suspended last week when there was a huge increase in demand for testing, it resumed last Monday.
The decision to close any meat plant or any business is made by public health officials or by the Health and Safety Authority, HSA, as appropriate. If a plant needs to close, it should close and there is no message, directive, policy or anything from Government saying to our public officials or to the HSA that plants should not be closed if they need to be. I want to make that clear. If public health doctors and officials dealing with the cluster believe a place has an outbreak and should be closed, the Government supports any decision to close a business, meat plant, school or anything else if that is the right thing to do in public health terms.
I hope that is abundantly clear. Regarding details on clusters, the public health authorities, NPHET and the HSE, should be as transparent as possible in putting out details of where clusters are located. It is also important, however, that we are careful about what we mean by that. A cluster can be two cases or it can be two cases connected, and most clusters are in fact households. We must also bear in mind that a cluster stays open until 28 days after there has been no case. When issuing public information about clusters, therefore, we need to do so in a way that does not end up stigmatising people or with a situation where individuals or individual households can be identified. It has always been the case in Ireland, and this is a good thing, that our healthcare information is private, and that if people have particular illnesses, infections or a particular type of cancer, for example, only those people concerned should be telling other people about the situation. It should not be put on a Government website, so we need to be careful when it comes to such information and how it is disclosed.
This week we passed an important milestone, with 1 million tests for Covid-19 having been carried out in this country. I express my thanks to all our health service and laboratory staff for making that possible. Contrary to what we might hear elsewhere, the amount of testing that we are doing is reasonably high on a per capita basis. It is higher than in countries such as Germany and New Zealand, which are often held up as examples to follow, and higher than in Sweden, which is also put forward by others from a different perspective as an example to follow. This amount of testing being carried out should be recognised for what it is, and I again express my thanks to our health service and laboratory staff for making this possible.
Comment on this
The Tánaiste has been telling us for some time, including during his tenure as Taoiseach, that we have the capacity to carry out 100,000 tests for Covid-19. Last week, we carried out 72,000 tests. Yet, testing in meat plants was being suspended. Our concern is that what we do has to be based on evidence. The evidence tells us that nearly four out of ten workplace clusters are occurring in meat plants. It is having devastating consequences on local economies and communities, and the people of Kildare, Laois and Offaly can tell us exactly what the impacts can be.
We are told that the Government is alert to this issue and, as the Tánaiste mentioned, all the proper surveillance is being carried out. However, we have a situation where a meat plant with a positive case is bussing workers in a 52-seater bus, with every seat filled and people standing in the aisles. How is that happening? How is that being allowed to happen? How is it that the area where the most serious clusters were developing in workplaces was the area where testing was suspended? What steps will the Government take to ensure that these workers are protected and that there is a robust process in meat plants? Time and again, I and the people believe that the meat barons have some grip on Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil regarding their response on this issue.
Comment on this
I do not have any details on that particular cluster nor on the means of staff getting to work, but I will make some enquiries and respond to the Deputy later, if possible. Deputy Doherty can spin out as many conspiracy theories as he likes. The message is very clear: if public health officials or the Health and Safety Authority, HSA, recommend or order a business to close, then it should close. The Deputy can create any kind of paranoid conspiracy theory that he likes, but I guarantee that there is no message, nudge, direction or policy from Government to say to any public health official that he or she should treat meat factories with kid gloves. That is just a paranoid fantasy from the Deputy's party.
Comment on this
There were 7,000 inspections of pubs.
Comment on this
The Deputy is a clever person. He knows the numbers. He said that there have been very few clusters and outbreaks in pubs.
Comment on this
Of course there have not. They are closed, with the exception of those operating as restaurants.
Comment on this
No, there were nearly 7,000 inspections of the pubs that are open.
Comment on this
Turning to capacity, we have the capacity to do 100,000 tests per week, and not per day, as Deputy Doherty's party leader said yesterday. She got her facts wrong once again. If we divide 100,000 by seven we get about 14,000 tests each day. Is it possible for us to do 14,000 tests in a day? Yes, it is. Have there been days where we have done 14,000 tests in one day? Yes, there have in the past two weeks. Have there also been occasions when demand for tests exceeded 14,000 in one day? Yes, that has also happened and that is what required the suspension of testing.
Comment on this
That was why the testing was suspended last week. The capacity did not exist, despite being at 72,000.