The last few questions have been about Covid but I wish to discuss the situation of school secretaries, who did enormous work over the past six months to ensure the reopening of our national and secondary schools, which is one of the best achievements during Covid so far. Over 1,000 school secretaries are not being treated equally in their pay and conditions of employment. Will the Government enter into meaningful discussions in the Labour Court, as agreed by the former Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Joe McHugh, in the House last October? That was 12 months ago. Over 1,000 school secretaries are being treated unequally as they are not getting paid other than through an annualised grant. They are working side by side with secretaries in other schools in their towns and villages who are getting their full pay and being treated as public servants with holiday pay and entitlements. We have relied on school secretaries to make sure that schools and their management have some resources in place. Many of these school secretaries worked over the summer months without pay to make sure the schools reopened. I understand that discussions have taken place but they have not been meaningful. Will the Government ensure fair treatment and parity of esteem for those school secretaries? They are not very happy that their issue has been kicked down the road and are contemplating industrial action. It would be an indictment of all of us if school secretaries had to go out on strike after all they have done. We have talked about front-line workers' bravery. I believe school secretaries are front-line workers as well.

I thank Deputy Canney for raising this issue. I know it is close to his heart and I remember us speaking about it months ago when we were in government together. The Government really values the essential work done by school secretaries and caretakers. Often, the school secretary is the first person one meets on the way into a school and the caretaker is the last person to leave in the evening. Schools would not operate without them and the role they play in our education system is as important as that of schoolteachers, SNAs and school principals. For that reason, it is the Government's objective to regularise their employment, terms and conditions, and pension rights. That can only be done going forward. It cannot be done retrospectively, for reasons that I will explain. Of course, it has to be done by agreement and engagement and I sincerely hope that engagement will take place.

I am advised that officials from the Departments of Education and Skills and Public Expenditure and Reform and school management bodies met with the trade union Fórsa on 1 October in the Workplace Relations Commission. An offer of a modest multiannual pay increase was made to Fórsa at that meeting but it was not acceptable to the union. The Department of Education and Skills, in conjunction with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, is considering the union's request to refer the matter to the Labour Court for determination. A number of technical issues exist as neither the Departments nor the management bodies are the employers of the staff in question. In these circumstances, Fórsa's statement that it is considering strike action is regrettable, and as we know, any such action would have a day-to-day impact on the operation of schools at this critical time and would disrupt tuition for students who have only recently returned to school after a six-month gap.

The Government is keenly aware of the role played by these vital staff and significant improvements to the pay of secretaries and caretakers have been made since 2015, under a pay arbitration scheme. This provided for a pay increase of 10% between 2016 and 2019 for staff, with a minimum rate of €13 per hour phased in over that period. The average hourly rate for a school secretary is now €15.49, which is in line with the hourly rate for a grade 3 clerical officer, taking into account that a clerical officer works through the summer.

There are a number of issues here. The Tánaiste talked about engagement and it is important that engagement takes place. It has been a year since the then Minister for Education and Skills agreed to enter into engagement with school secretaries. The offer made by the Department was for a pay rise, but what the school secretaries want is equality in their pay, terms and conditions. This issue has not been addressed by officials from either the Department of Education and Skills or the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform in the discussions. If we are going to bring into force what we say about holding school secretaries in high esteem, we need to engage in the mechanisms that are in place. I again urge that this issue be taken up as a matter of urgency. School secretaries are not people who want to go on strike. They are not threatening it if they do not get somewhere but there is a short window of opportunity for the Departments to engage meaningfully to find a resolution to this matter once and for all.

The Deputy is correct that a pay rise has been offered, but this is not just about pay. It is about other issues as well and school secretaries and caretakers understandably want their employment terms and conditions to be regularised. They want to be public sector employees, like teachers and other secretaries in the public service, working in local authorities or Civil Service departments. However, we need to work out what equality means. Secretaries and clerical officers working in Departments and local authorities work year-round and only have a few weeks of annual leave. Many of those issues have to be worked out because equality must be defined in that context. As is always the case with industrial relations matters such as this one, anything we do would have to be prospective and not retrospective. If changes were retrospective, they would kick off claims from up to 100,000 other people who are not directly employed by the State but by bodies that are grant-aided by the State. The Deputy will be familiar with a similar issue that arises with supervisors on community employment schemes. The resolution can only be a prospective one but we do want to resolve this.