Pregnant woman PSC issue
Deputy Kelly shifts from Covid policy to a constituent needing a Public Services Card to access maternity and child-related payments. The Tánaiste says he will check the arrangements and ask the Social Protection Minister to look into it.
The issue is that the Morrissey judgment has changed all that. It has changed a great deal of this and much of the thinking on it. I raised this yesterday and I respectfully ask the Minister to meet the 221+ group - the Taoiseach has already committed to meeting me - and push back the date until that is done.
On a more positive note, in fairness, the Government has listened on a number of issues in respect of where we are going with Covid-19. As regards the situation with loneliness and isolation, the creation of bubbles for people who are living alone and for single parents proposed by my colleague, Senator Moynihan, has been adopted by the Government. It also listened to calls to increase the number of people to be allowed to attend funerals for compassionate reasons, given the number allowed to attend weddings. I accept this has happened. I now ask the Government to consider some changes to allow partners and husbands to be present in maternity settings with their wives or partners, under specific circumstances. I do so for compassionate reasons. A number of parties have raised this issue in the Dáil previously.
Last Friday, I was on the street in Nenagh and I met a lady whom I will call Áine. She is a friend of mine. She beckoned me across the street and told me a very difficult story. She discovered she had lost her baby at the three-month scan in University Hospital Limerick's maternity unit. It was an awful, very upsetting story. She and her husband are devastated. Incidentally, the maternity services do a fantastic job across the country. They are amazing. I realise Dr. McKenna has carried out an analysis of guidelines for the Government, but we need to tweak them from a compassionate point of view. It cannot be the case that people who have enough money and have private consultations can have partners or husbands present at a scan, but those who do not have enough money cannot have them in the public setting.
I ask the Government to look at this again - I am not seeking to have a decision made here - because of Áine's story. She was left crying in the maternity service of the hospital. She had to go back to a ward in which women were joyous with the children they had just been given. She was left there on her own. That is barbaric. Both Áine and I believe that she and her husband will need therapy in this situation. I know her very well, and I have never seen somebody so devastated. We stood on the side of the street talking privately for over half an hour. There has to be some customisation for women to ensure their partners and husbands can attend, in very limited circumstances, for the three-month scan and perhaps at another date. In particular, they must be brought in immediately when there is bad news.
My last point relates to the situation throughout the country. I know somebody who happened to walk through the car park of a maternity hospital and was confronted with the sight of many husbands, men and partners sitting in their cars. We can, and must, do better than that. I acknowledge the Government has made changes in other areas, so I urge it to consider making a change in this regard.
Comment on this
I thank the Deputy for raising this sensitive issue. It is an ongoing issue and many people have taken an interest in it in recent weeks, including Senator Currie, members of the Labour Party and others. I recognise the constructive and measured approach the Labour Party has taken in recent weeks with regard to the country trying to deal with this Covid crisis. The Deputy has taken the time to attend all the briefings, to speak to the Taoiseach afterwards and to take a position on whether we should go to level 4 or level 5 when other parties would not. The approach shown by the Labour Party is in stark contrast to the behaviour of other Opposition parties when it comes to Covid and when we should all be very much on the same side in doing everything we can to contain the virus, North and South.
On the specific issue raised by the Deputy, I understand that partners and fathers are allowed to attend for the labour in the maternity hospitals, but there are tight restrictions on attending for antenatal appointments and scans. Mechanisms are being put in place, where possible, to allow the father or the partner to attend remotely. However, that is not the same as being there in person. One cannot hold hands over Zoom and one certainly cannot comfort somebody who is getting bad news virtually or remotely. What concerns the clinical directors and masters is that the more people who come into the hospital, the greater is the risk that coronavirus will be brought into the hospital. With the virus at such high levels in the community, the risk increases each time a visitor comes into the hospital. We must be cognisant of that. The vast majority of pregnant women are very healthy, and even if they contracted coronavirus there will probably be no negative sequelae as a result. However, some women are not. Some have complicated pregnancies and have co-morbidities. If they got coronavirus while pregnant, it could result in bad outcomes for them and their babies. So far, no pregnant woman in Ireland has died of coronavirus, and we would like to keep it that way.
We must balance the concerns. However, I have listened to what the Deputy said and I will take it up with the HSE and CMO the next time we talk.
Comment on this
I appreciate that. The statistics show that no pregnant woman has been infected, which is an amazing statistic. We want to keep it that way. However, there are certain circumstances, particularly when bad news has been delivered, where we will have to change the protocols. It is too devastating. I also believe we must examine the protocols in general. I have an issue with regard to somebody who does not have enough income or who is not going through the private system - some of us have a sufficient income but still go through the public system, as I and my wife did for the delivery of our two children - not having access. There is a distinction there which is unacceptable.
Finally, Jennifer Purcell from Limerick has publicly spoken about having twins. She is applying for maternity benefit online, but she has been told she must have a public services card, PSC. However, she cannot get a PSC. It appears to be a significant anomaly. I ask the Tánaiste to investigate that. Obviously, people who are applying for maternity benefit have to be facilitated in the current circumstances.
Comment on this
I thank the Deputy. I will certainly check that out or ask the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Humphreys, to do so. The person concerned will be applying for both maternity benefit and child benefit. In most cases, that is when people get their PSC if they do not have one already. I am not sure what arrangements exist at the moment to facilitate people who do not have a PSC and cannot travel to an Intreo centre but I am happy to look into the matter.