Order of Business
Members disputed the timetable for Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday business. The Government proposed additional speaking time and revised allocations for Tánaiste statements and other items, while several Deputies objected to the proposed limits or sought further changes before agreement was finally put and moved on.
The House has agreed that for the duration of the Covid-19 emergency only, the rapporteur's report of the Order of Business shall not be read, but taken as read. There are three proposals to be put to the House today. First, is the proposal for dealing with the order of Tuesday's business agreed to?
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As the Taoiseach has said, parliamentary democracy is precious and very important. Yesterday, the Government circulated a proposal that each party and group in the Opposition would have ten minutes to question the Tánaiste about matters of profound importance. As was seen on Leaders' Questions, there was a range of questions that the Taoiseach could not answer, but which he says the Tánaiste will answer later. However, he has only allocated ten minutes. I ask the Taoiseach again to make more time available. Yesterday, an email was sent to the Chief Whip with a proposal from Sinn Féin for extra time to be allocated to all Opposition parties and groups for what is an important matter in the interests of the people. I understand all the Opposition groups have supported that proposal, so I await the Taoiseach's response to it. I expect him to allocate more time for this important debate later.
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Other Members are indicating that they wish to speak, but there might be a reply that could pre-empt wasting more time.
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I appreciate the feedback from the Opposition parties and groups regarding more speaking time. We have listened to that and, in the interests of consensus and compromise, I propose an amendment to Tuesday's business in regard to the statements and questions and answers by the Tánaiste on the GP contract that: "The proceedings shall be brought to a conclusion after 120 minutes and shall consist of a statement by the Tánaiste which shall not exceed 20 minutes, followed by 16 minutes questions and answers for Sinn Féin and 14 minutes questions and answers for all the other party groups in opposition." I hope this can be agreed by the House.
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I am taking just one speaker from each group and Deputy McGrath has indicated as the speaker from that group.
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I have a point I wish to make.
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We are not agreeing to it. We are being told this in the middle of the Order of Business and the amount of time being provided is not adequate to have proper, meaningful questions and answers. The public needs this and we need this, because it could be far-reaching in its effects on other contracts and other important issues of State. The national children's hospital comes to mind, as does the broadband contract and God knows whatever else. The former Minister, Mr. Ross, tells us how the then Minister, Deputy Naughten, was undermined in the Cabinet with leaks.
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Fourteen minutes is not enough time, so I oppose the proposal.
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The Deputy is not agreed to it. There is no need for a debate. There has been a proposal and it is not agreed to.
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On a point of order, the Opposition groups are now being offered 14 minutes when they sought 15 minutes yesterday. In a two-hour debate they are arguing over one minute. Deputy McGrath just said 14 minutes is not enough. His group's submission yesterday sought 15 minutes. People are watching the proceedings at home. The Government is trying its best to compromise here.
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The Government is trying to hide, not us.
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They are arguing over one minute.
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The Government is trying to cover up, not us.
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The time Deputy McGrath has spent on his feet arguing was about one minute.
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That is how cynical the Opposition is.
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When the Opposition wrote to the Government-----
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It does not matter what we write. The Government will not give us any more time. It bullies everyone.
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For the record, what was requested by email yesterday was an additional round. What was proposed by the Government was ten minutes. An additional round was proposed and, in fairness, I think that should be agreed to. We are talking about ten minutes of a difference in terms of yesterday's proposal. It should be agreed.
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The Leas-Cheann Comhairle seems to-----
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I am sorry, but I asked Members to co-operate. It is not helpful to behave in this way. It is a misuse of time. Does the Taoiseach want to come in?
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I am sorry, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, but I had indicated.
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That is okay. I have explained to Deputy Healy-Rae that I am taking one person from each group.
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I had indicated. When you asked on the Order of Business if there was any objection, I said that I had. It is very-----
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I believe I am entitled to speak. I indicated on the Order of Business. When you asked if there were any objections, I said I had something to say. If you will allow me to do so, I will make my point.
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No, not at the moment. I thank the Deputy but I have called the Taoiseach to speak. Perhaps it might be helpful if he wants to come in at this point.
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We are endeavouring to be helpful. The Chief Whip's proposal is a genuine attempt, which I thought, to be fair, Sinn Féin was accepting until Deputy McGrath spoke. His contribution seems to have been a catalyst for Sinn Féin to harden its position. Two hours is a lengthy enough process. I think that is fair. The Chief Whip made the proposal in good faith and I hope the response to it will be in the same vein.
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A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, you have allowed-----
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That is okay. I have asked Deputies for their co-operation. Is Deputy Berry speaking for the Regional Group?
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Yes, as an Independent Deputy, I think the Government's concession of 16 minutes for Sinn Féin and 14 minutes for the other groupings is reasonable.
That is a reasonable concession and compromise. We should run with that.
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I just want to reiterate-----
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There may be a solution. I am trying to be helpful.
In terms of what is being proposed by the Government, why do we not split it in half?
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The Government is saying 16 minutes. What about splitting it two rounds of eight minutes for ourselves and two rounds of seven minutes for the other groups?
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It is the same.
The Government proposed 16 minutes for Sinn Féin and 14 minutes for the other groups. I am proposing two rounds and splitting them in half. It is exactly the same thing in two rounds.
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Why does Deputy Mac Lochlainn need two rounds?
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That was what was proposed. Deputy Griffin has asked a question and I will respond to him. The Business Committee-----
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The Members opposite have asked for clarification.
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Will the Deputy resume his seat? He has made his point. We are not using the Dáil to negotiate times. This is a proposal which is either agreed or not.
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It is not agreed but I am still going to be denied my opportunity to make my point. I believe it is very tidy and I would have made it long ago if I had been permitted.
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I called for a speaker from each group. Deputy Mattie McGrath indicated. I listened to him.
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And his point was very valid.
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I had indicated before anybody else, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle. I want to know why you are victimising me now. Why do you think you are going to deny me my right to speak in this House?
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I indicated in a very fair fashion, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle. All I wanted was an opportunity to speak. Are you denying me my right to speak?
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Will the Deputy allow me to reply and will he resume his seat? It is a speaker from each group.
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Deputy Mattie McGrath indicated as the speaker from the Deputy's group and I allowed him in. At this point I am putting the question because there is no agreement.
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My group has not spoken.
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I am trying to be helpful.
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I did ask and no Member from the Deputy's group indicated. If the Deputy wants to make a quick contribution, he can do so now.
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To save time and, hopefully, for us not to be forced into a vote which would actually be a waste of time at this point, if it is only a minute in the difference, why will the Government not just agree to the original proposal, which was ten and five minutes?
With due respect to Deputy Mac Lochlainn, I do not agree with the splitting of seven and eight because it will just mess things up from our point of view and from some of the smaller groups' point of view. For the sake of a minute, will the Government just do the ten and the five which was originally proposed. The time difference is so small and we would be wasting it with a vote.
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Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with Tuesday's business be agreed to."
Do you agree with this result?
It is not agreed. The Solidarity-People Before Profit group wrote to the Business Committee to state our view that time should have been made available this week to discuss the significant concerns regarding health and safety in schools, particularly in the context of the Association of Secondary Teachers Ireland ballot. It expressed concerns about the failure to apply the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control close contact protocols when it comes to positive Covid cases and raised other issues pertaining in particular to the health and safety of 800 teachers with underlying conditions. The Taoiseach may have seen the principal and deputy principal of a school in Luttrellstown who featured on a news programme last night. They pointed out that they did not understand the way in which the Covid-19 contact tracing and testing regime in schools was operating. These are serious matters to do with the public health effort and the health and safety of teachers, pupils, their families and the wider community which need to be discussed in detail and debated in the House.
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A very important issue of great concern has been arising in this House in recent weeks. For instance, yesterday evening it was announced that the House will sit an hour and a half later than planned tonight. This is a continuing trend. I am speaking on behalf of people who work in this House and have voiced concerns. These hard-working staff will be in Leinster House until 12.30 a.m., 1.30 a.m. or 2 a.m., locking up the premises when the House has finished sitting tonight. It makes no sense in the world that the Dáil could not start until 2 p.m. today but will keep going until 12.30 a.m. It does not make common sense. Why can Dáil Éireann not function like any normal place of work where people start at 8 a.m. or 9 a.m. and finish at a normal time in the evening? I do not care if Deputies have to stay here until 12 midnight, 1 a.m. or 2 a.m. That is my business. I am speaking on behalf of the permanent Oireachtas staff who will be here when the Taoiseach and I will be long gone from the House. It is their job. I think it is wrong because it is unnecessary. Why can the House not start its business at a normal time of the day?
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Are any other groups indicating on the proposal for dealing with tomorrow's business? That is the topic we are discussing.
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I point out to Deputy Boyd Barrett that the Minister for Education, Deputy Foley, and her Department have been in constant engagement with the partners in education, including the trade unions, regarding the continued opening of schools to ensure that children do not fall as long-term victims of this virus and that we protect them in every way possible. The best way to do that is to have an enhanced learning environment. Obviously, schools must be safe for all those working in them. Public health teams, working with education bodies and the Government, have been established to try to enhance that protection and engagement in order that there is a proper mutual understanding of the criteria the public health teams will be setting down in that regard.
On the issue raised by Deputy Michael Healy-Rae, I fully understand and empathise with him regarding the impact on staff of the late sitting hours into the early hours of the morning.
I believe a good ten hours are scheduled today, about an hour of which is strictly Government time. If Deputies keep looking for a debate on this and a debate on that, the logical outcome will be sitting until 1 a.m. or 2 a.m.
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I was asking about Wednesday. Wednesday is what we are talking about.
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I do not mean that in any disparaging way; it is just where we are. The Business Committee could usefully look at that. Deputy Michael Healy-Rae has made a reasonable argument in asking if we can get more reasonable timelines into this. I take his point in that regard.
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I asked specifically about Wednesday and a debate which is of considerable public health importance.
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The Taoiseach did not answer me.
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The Deputy has put something regarding the Order of Business for tomorrow. The Taoiseach has answered it and that is the answer.
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He did not give an answer.
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The Government is not allowing a debate on that at any point, is it?
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It is not agreed. Same point.
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Again, there is a lengthy session, but at the end of the session we will have an hour and a half to debate a Private Members' Bill, the Education (Admission to Schools) Bill. Generally, with Bills like that, people can raise issues that broadly apply to education.
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That has nothing to do with it.
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The Finance Bill will be taken on Thursday. We have Leaders' Questions, Questions to the Minister for Rural and Community Development, Questions on Promised Legislation, the Finance Bill and the Topical Issue debate, which Deputies feel is very important. Then we will have the Education (Admission to Schools) Bill. It is due to finish at about 7.30 p.m., which will probably be 8 o'clock on Thursday.