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Dáil
‹ An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

Healy-Rae dispute over comments

Summary

Michael Healy-Rae repeatedly demanded that the Taoiseach withdraw remarks suggesting he opposed every level 5 restriction. The argument consumed the rest of the session, with the Chair intervening, the House briefly suspended, and the Taoiseach defending his comments as a policy point.

-----in relation to level 5.

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If the Taoiseach says something and it is a lie, he should take it back. A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, is the Taoiseach allowed to say something that is a lie?

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

I want to move on.

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We are advised by NPHET on level 5. The restrictions apply to a range of sectors and groups. It is difficult for people but if one concedes one thing, then one concedes two, three, four, five or six things and then there is no level 5 and we do not reduce the case numbers down to where we would like. It is not something we want to do-----

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-----but the numbers are down. Deputy Danny Healy-Rae knows everything about climate change and public health and has an abiding antipathy towards experts or people who offer advice. It is unfair. The Deputy is just playing the game all the time.

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The people know and the Taoiseach knows-----

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He is playing a popularity contest all the time. On Deputy Andrews' question, Sport Ireland is the body that advises on this------

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I want to know when the Taoiseach is going to withdraw the untruth that he put on the record of the Dáil. The Taoiseach said that I was totally opposed to every restriction under level 5. Will he withdraw it? It is untrue. It is a lie. Is he going to withdraw it, "yes" or "no"?

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Through the Chair----

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Are you going to withdraw the remark?

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In the parliamentary Chamber, I am entitled to make comments. I make them in the best of good faith. The Deputy has opposed everything as far as I can see.

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Are you standing over a lie?

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The Deputy has opposed every single thing.

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No. One cannot do that to somebody, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.

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Stop shouting, please.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Could the Taoiseach please-----

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I am asking that the Taoiseach withdraw what he said from the record of the Dáil.

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He cannot come in here-----

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae-----

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-----and say something like that and he thinks he will get away with it.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Taoiseach, please. The Leas-Cheann Comhairle is standing. It is rare but it is my second time doing so today. The time for Questions on Promised Legislation is over. That is it. We are moving on to the next item.

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No, I clearly object to the Taoiseach telling a lie about me. He clearly said that I opposed everything contained in the level 5 restrictions and that is not true.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Could the Deputy-----

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I ask him if he is going to withdraw it.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Will the Deputy please resume his seat?

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I am asking the Taoiseach if he is seriously going to leave it on the record of the Dáil that I told lies and that he is telling a lie about me.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Could the Deputy please resume his seat and show a little respect for the Leas-Cheann Comhairle?

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No. Hold on now, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, this is totally unfair. The Taoiseach cannot do that to somebody. I am asking him to withdraw it.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

I am asking the Deputy for the last time to please sit down and show a little respect.

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I am asking the Leas-Cheann Comhairle is she going to step in and ask the Taoiseach if he will withdraw his remarks.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

I am asking the Deputy to sit down and show a little-----

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He cannot come in here and make a blanket statement like that. I will not let him get away with it. It is not true.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Deputy Healy-Rae------

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One cannot tell a lie about somebody in here and leave it on the record. The Taoiseach is here long enough to know that.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Will Deputy Healy-Rae please resume his seat?

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I am trying to defend myself. That is all I am trying to do, and there is no need for the Deputy to be so smart either.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Okay. Members must speak through the chair. I am asking for the last time. I will suspend the Dáil.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Please. Out of respect for the seat of democracy, I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.

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It is extremely unfair of the Taoiseach to do that.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

I am going to suspend the Dáil. That is it.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

We will move on to the next item of business.

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Before we do so, I wish to raise a point of order. I ask the Taoiseach to withdraw the wrong and untruthful allegation he made about me on the record of the House. It is extremely unfair. I want to afford him, out of courtesy, as a man of extensive ministerial experience and now the Taoiseach of this country, the chance to do so. I am appealing to him to withdraw what he said. When there was a massive lockdown imposed many months ago, I came out publicly and in every other way in support of the then Government.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

The Deputy has made his point.

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All I am saying is that what the Taoiseach said was unfair. As a basic courtesy from one human being to another, I ask him to withdraw his comment. I am being very fair in asking him to do so and I am being very straight about it. I am asking him, as Taoiseach, and, more important, as a person, to take back what he said about me, which was unfair, untruthful and not correct.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

I will allow the Taoiseach to respond to the Deputy if he wants to, but I am not allowing any further debate on this matter. What has happened here is unacceptable. I have suspended the Dáil and now we are going to resume our business. Deputy Michael Healy-Rae has made his point and I hear what he is saying. If the Taoiseach wants to respond briefly at this point, he is more than welcome to do so. Deputy Healy-Rae has asked a specific question, namely, that the Taoiseach would withdraw his comment.

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I do not think that is the basis on which I should respond.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

That is okay.

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I would like to make a final point, if I may. We all enjoy, and engage in, the cut and thrust of parliamentary debate. There was nothing untoward or unparliamentary in what I said. I made a debating point and it was an important point from a policy perspective.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

We are not going to repeat what was said.

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People say things about me and I accept them in the full spirit in which they are given in parliamentary exchange and debate. What I said was not a slur, smear or aspersion on anybody's character. My comment was about policy. I was speaking to the policy of this issue.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Thank you, a Thaoisigh.

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I do not think the Deputy's overly melodramatic response is sincere.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

We are not going to repeat what was said. The matter stands as it stands. If Deputy Michael Healy-Rae is unhappy with it, there are procedures by way of which he can take his complaint further.

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I will have to take it up with the Leas-Cheann Comhairle. I asked the Taoiseach, as a human being, to make it clear on the record of the Dáil that what he said was wrong.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Please, Deputy.

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If he will not do that, then he is not much of a man after it. It is as simple as that. He had an opportunity to withdraw what he said but he would not man up and set the record straight.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Deputy, we must move on.

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It is a bad reflection on the Taoiseach. It is a very bad reflection on his character that he would not take back an untruth about another person. That is very wrong and very unfair. The only person who will look bad out of this is the Taoiseach because what he did was wrong.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

I have been more than lenient in allowing the Deputy to make his point. That is where the matter stands.

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