Whatever about the finer details and implications of the matters concerning the Tánaiste yesterday, one implication is definitely that there are many groups of workers who are scratching their heads and wishing that they had such matey backchannels with the Tánaiste or Taoiseach of the day. One of those groups of workers that the Taoiseach has suggested it is in his DNA to communicate with is the Debenhams workers who have now been seven months on the picket line fighting for a just redundancy as we face into the winter months. They certainly have not enjoyed the level of access and communication they would like. Deputy Barry has sent an invitation to all Oireachtas Members to an online briefing at 2 o'clock today where the shop stewards will brief Oireachtas Members. They are hoping the Taoiseach or representatives from his office and the Tánaiste can make it to hear about their plight.

One very important development is that KPMG, in an action that I regard as bullying and trying to demoralise these heroic, brave, decent, hard-working and mostly women workers, is threatening to walk away from the liquidation process, offering them an even more insulting €500,000 when an already insulting €1 million was previously offered. It is suggesting that if the workers do not take this, nothing will be left for creditors, meaning even the State could lose out.

That should make the Government sit up and act in a way that it has so far failed to do to intervene for these workers, since Debenhams is effectively threatening the State as a creditor. All this is based on spurious claims which are being discussed at the Joint Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Employment, the failure of the Government to implement the Duffy-Cahill report and the way that companies like Debenhams hide assets which should be used in this case to pay a decent redundancy to workers. The online business and other Debenhams assets have been hidden even though Debenhams stood in court in April and said that an online business worth at least €30 million was an asset of the Irish company, which it is now claiming is an asset of the British company. All this is contrived to deny these workers a just redundancy and now, possibly, to rob Revenue and the State of money. Will this finally prompt the Taoiseach to engage with the Debenhams shop stewards to force the liquidator to sit down with those shop stewards to secure a just settlement where the actual, real assets of the company are used to give them the just redundancy and save them from having to stay on the picket line for the coming winter months?

I have said numerous times in the House that the staff in Debenhams have been treated very unfairly and appallingly in this very protracted dispute by the company. In fairness to the Deputy, he has raised this issue consistently in the House and he is anxious that talks would develop. KPMG was approached to enter talks on behalf of Debenhams to try to resolve the outstanding claims. Those talks, which were being facilitated by the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, unfortunately broke down on Monday. I will contact colleagues in government to see where we take this now in terms of the situation which has emerged. I am not satisfied with that. I acknowledge the stance that the workers have taken to protect themselves. The Government has constraints with the legal framework on how liquidations are managed in the courts, which we must respect. I hoped these exploratory talks under the aegis of the WRC might lead to a pathway to resolve the issue once and for all. It has not borne fruit but my view is that we should try to resurrect it. I will discuss it with colleagues this week to see if we can inject anything new into this to resolve it, particularly for the workers. The Ministers of State are meeting with the social partners today to discuss the Duffy-Cahill report and also reforms around redundancy and how best to progress those. We will do everything we can within the current constraints to resolve this for the workers.

The Taoiseach has an invitation to meet the shop stewards today to hear directly from them. They are also holding an online mass meeting on Thursday. The Taoiseach is also invited to that and they would be very happy for him to attend to hear from them.

Successive Governments failed to legislate for Duffy-Cahill and now the Debenhams workers find themselves in a situation where a company is once again hiding assets. They are furious that the Government, Revenue and the liquidator show no interest in the fact that the directors of Debenhams Ireland stated explicitly that the online business worth €30 million in 2018, and almost certainly more in 2019, has not been pursued while Debenhams says it has nothing, even though the balance sheet that it put forward in court during pre-liquidation showed a balance of €30 million as at the end of 2019. That is three times more than would be necessary to pay the workers their just redundancy yet neither the Government nor the liquidator shows any interest in pursuing these assets from a company that swore in court that it had those assets but then, a few weeks later, magicked those assets over to Britain, pretending they did not exist. They are asking the State to go after those assets to pay the just redundancy as well as Revenue the money that Debenhams owes them.

If only it was as simple as the Deputy articulates it, but it is not and he knows that. That is the unfortunate reality. The implementation of the Duffy-Cahill recommendations would not have resolved this. The Government is committed to and is undertaking the reform of company law, particularly in improving the rights of workers where collective agreements have been formulated and signed off by both employers and unions and to give greater and stronger protection to such collective agreements in the event of liquidations than currently. That should happen and the Government is committed to making that happen, but retrospectively applying that will not resolve this situation.

I have maintained an interest in this issue all along. I have not led people up a hill with a view that it can all be resolved very easily. My gut instinct is that it cannot, particularly when the liquidation is in the High Court and within the court's parameters and procedures. Governments cannot just walk in and make declaratory interventions of the kind the Deputy suggests. That said, I will still try to exhaust every opportunity to try to get some meaningful response for the workers concerned. I regret that the WRC channel has not borne fruit and that the talks broke down earlier this week.