I call Deputy Barry.

Today is day 250 of the Debenhams dispute. The Taoiseach was asked by multiple parties across this House to intervene to resolve this dispute before Christmas in order that workers could spend the holiday season at home with their families rather than freezing on picket lines and having to stress about an ongoing dispute. He appointed the chairman of the Labour Court, Kevin Foley, as mediator on 25 November. The expectation was that a proposal would be on the table no later than 7 December, allowing workers time to conduct a ballot and have a result a few days before Christmas Day. However, not only was there no proposal by 7 December, there was no proposal by 9 December.

Now, as of 2.15 p.m., there has been no proposal by 15 December. What was meant to happen within 12 days has taken more than 20. Where is the delay in these three-cornered talks? The talks have not been delayed by the workers. They have signalled their willingness to consider any serious offer. I have been highly critical of KPMG's role in this entire dispute, but I do not believe that it has delayed the talks either. Instead, I believe the delay is on the side of the Government.

Let us register a few points here. These are workers, overwhelmingly women, who were sacked by email, and robbed of their jobs under the cover of Covid. They were let down by the previous Government which failed to implement the Duffy Cahill report and lied when it said that a Clerys situation would never happen again. That was a Government which was kept in power for four years by the Taoiseach's party and whose failure to act met with no protest or interruption by either the Taoiseach or his party. These workers have protested for eight long months through a pandemic, through nights and through winter, and they have appealed to the Taoiseach not just for a settlement but for a just settlement.

Last week the Government came in for a mauling at the hands of public opinion for axing the pay rates agreed for student nurses in the springtime and for allowing them to work on our hospital front lines now for not even a penny's pay. Will the Government abandon and betray a second group of women workers in the run-up to Christmas? With ten days to go, will the Government allow the dispute to remain unresolved by Christmas Day? Can it be the case that the Government is so cynical that it is prepared to stall negotiations until such time that the Dáil rises on Thursday for fear of facing comment or criticism on the floor of Dáil Éireann? Is it the case, as many workers believe, that the Government is blocking a fair deal for these workers and intend to deny the justice that both they and their families deserve this Christmas time?

That is an extraordinary statement to make. The Deputy is an extraordinary propagandist and a populist. He has led people up the hill without levelling with them about the facts and what they could expect. The Deputy's behaviour in this dispute has not been great either because he knows the facts and the legal realities. The only party which has stood up to the plate here are those in government on behalf of the taxpayer. The Government has come forward with statutory redundancy - the Deputy has never acknowledged that - yet he has the nerve to come in here and say the Government is blocking a deal or a resolution.

The Deputy knows a bit more than he is saying to the House. I have been kept informed of the deliberations with the independent arbitrator. Maybe the tactics and strategy Deputy Barry deployed at the beginning were not the best or were not those that were likely to achieve the optimal outcome for the workers, and to be fair to him, he has been loyal and supportive, but his tactical approach and strategy has compounded the resolution of this issue, unfortunately. I have to say that given the extraordinary distortion he just articulated.

The Government has worked speedily on the statutory redundancy and stands ready to do more within the law to help and to support the workers, but there are limitations because of how long this has gone on and the legal situation pertaining to Revenue and social protection under the Acts and various laws. There are very serious challenges here. It not the Government that is trying to block an agreement. How dare Deputy Barry say that. The Government has facilitated the mediation. It was the Government that asked for the mediator to get involved, but it suits the Deputy to paint a picture that it is all the Government's fault. If liquidations happen, it is the Government's fault.

The manner in which the workers were treated by their employer was shoddy and very wrong, but the Duffy Cahill report would not have dealt with this particular issue. There is a need for a future company law review to look at giving greater protection to collective redundancy agreements in liquidations.

That is something we have said on the record.

Again, I just have to repeat that the Deputy is entirely dismissive of the fact that the Government has worked as speedily as it possibly can in terms of getting the redundancy payments out to Debenhams employees and workers. It remains our commitment to do what we can but there are some real, hard realities presenting themselves to all parties as they have tried to resolve this issue and get something for the workers.

The Taoiseach's criticism of me personally is water off a duck's back. I am interested in what the workers think of my role in this dispute. I am not interested in what the Taoiseach thinks in this dispute, and that is where I will take my lead and my guidance from.

For the matters at hand, I have spoken about the need for a settlement before Christmas. I want to speak now about the need for a just settlement. The Taoiseach knows as well as I do that this is not getting the statutory. This is about them getting more than the statutory. That is what they are campaigning for. At the start of September, an offer was made to the workers that would be the statutory plus the sum of €1 million. The Taoiseach knows and I know that this was rejected out of hand at the start of September by those workers. The very fact that the Government set up talks, negotiation and arbitration with Kevin Foley etc. presupposes the idea that there would be an offer put on the table which would not simply be better than that but would be significantly better than that. What is the point if a proposal that is significantly better than that cannot be put on the table? Its being set up at the end of November, with calls ringing in the Taoiseach's ears that this be settled before Christmas so that those women and those workers could spend Christmas at home with their families, presupposed the idea that this would be resolved before Christmas. Time is ticking. I believe the obstacle here lies not with the workers and not with KPMG but with the Government, irrespective of what the Taoiseach might say about my role in the dispute.

The Deputy has just summed it up. His role is to blame Government, full stop. Ignore all the realities, ignore all the legal frameworks and all the challenges. His job is to blame Government and, perhaps, to undermine the trade union involved as well. There is a bit of that in his operation as well. I have picked that up during the course of this. Very often, the Deputy is not very strongly supportive of some of what might be considered mainstream trade unions. There is an element of that in his strategy as well.

These are very difficult issues to resolve and the manner of this liquidation left an awful lot to be desired. Of course it did. However, Government has not been the agency responsible for blocking anything. Anything Government can do, it has done, and Government is seeking to do more, if it can. If the Deputy is trying to create a new paradigm, on the other hand, that Government intervenes in every liquidation that happens in the retail sector, even the most recent ones, above and beyond statutory, then that is a different story, is it not? The Deputy would be better saying let us increase statutory all around for everything that happens, for every redundancy that happens.

What we are trying to do here, and because of the slippage of time and various other things, it has proved difficult, is do what we can to get something additional for the workers. That is our only objective and motivation and that is why we asked Kevin Foley if he would become involved to see if he could facilitate a resolution of this as quickly as possible. The workers have been out too long, they have been on picket too long, and it has been very difficult - extraordinarily difficult - for them and their families. It is not a political blame game and it should not be.