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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Vaccination concerns and advice

Summary

Deputy O'Donoghue welcomed the new year, acknowledged the mother and baby homes scandal, and then pressed on public concerns about vaccines and a ministerial remark calling questioners cowardly. The Tánaiste stressed that it is always okay to ask questions, defended public information and reassurance, and noted hospitals were generally doing a very good job.

I wish to start by wishing the Tánaiste and his family and all my colleagues in the Houses of the Oireachtas a happy and safe new year. That goes for all the people around Ireland. The time since Christmas has been difficult, with Covid-19 resulting in 172 people in intensive care and 17,000 hospitalised over Christmas. Before moving on to my questions to the Tánaiste, I wish to acknowledge and express my deep shame about what happened to the mothers, babies and children in the mother and baby homes. This wrong can never been undone. Recognising and acknowledging the shame, stigma and neglect in what happened to these mothers and their babies is the first step towards the healing of and the progress on the hurt and the humiliation. The abuse of power by the State, the Church and local authorities is totally unacceptable. I thank Deputy Connolly. She put it very well last night when she stated that it was the powerful against the powerless.

My question is this: is it okay in this country to ask a question? Is it okay in this country to be scared? Six weeks ago I was asked whether I would take the vaccine. On that same day I answered truthfully that I would have to speak to my doctors. Why? Because they were dealing with something relating to an underlying condition that I was dealing with. My doctors have told me that when the vaccine becomes available, they will advise me to take it - and I will take it. However, people have put out a stigma that it is not okay to ask a question. Vicky Phelan, who was on "The Late Late Show" last week, said she has the highest respect, as I myself do, for front-line workers and the care they provide but she also said that it is okay to question things to get the answers. My job, as a politician and as an elected representative for Limerick, is to ask the questions and look after everyone, whether or not they are in favour of taking a vaccine. My job is to encourage them. My job is to help them in whatever way I can. My advice to anyone who has concerns about the vaccine is to consult his or her GP. Who knows us best but our own GPs?

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Tánaiste Fine Gael

To answer the Deputy's question, it is okay to ask questions and, yes, it is okay to have doubts and to seek reassurance and information. That is entirely reasonable. During my time practising as a doctor - as a GP - I worked in vaccine clinics. People had questions and concerns and it was my job to answer their questions, give them accurate information and assuage their concerns. The Deputy and I are both on the same page in that regard. We have a very good record in Ireland when it comes to take-up of vaccines. When it comes to the childhood vaccination programme, we have take-up in the region of 95% or more, much better than many other countries, and our healthcare professionals do a good job in that regard. Our philosophy has always been to engage, explain and reassure and to give people all the facts and not to browbeat people into submission or to patronise them. It is important we are all in that space when we talk about the vaccine. That is not to say for a second that I condone or think we should tolerate the kinds of conspiracies theories, lies and misinformation we see spread, particularly online. They are wrong and should stop, but that should not be conflated with individuals, citizens and patients who have concerns and questions and who want to know about the side-effects, efficacy and safety. It is entirely right that they should ask those questions. Our job as the Government, as politicians and as healthcare professionals is to provide the information and to engage, inform and reassure. That would be the best approach as we go forward.

As things stand, far from vaccine hesitancy being a problem, the problem at the moment is supply. There are many more people who want the vaccine now than we have vaccines. I think we will achieve that 70% or 80% we need for herd immunity. As I said earlier, this vaccine will be offered to everyone. It will be free of charge. It will not be compulsory. It is safe and effective. It may be the case that this vaccine was developed more quickly than any other vaccine in the past, but no corners were cut in terms of the trials or the clinical data. People will need two doses of the vaccine to get full protection. Those two doses will be given three to six weeks apart.

Comment on this

I agree with every sentiment the Tánaiste has expressed. Would I be right in saying that it is not okay for one of his Ministers of State to come out and call people who were seeking medical advice and asking questions cowardly? His Minister of State representing Limerick came out and stated in a newspaper that people who ask questions are cowardly. That is completely wrong. I am asked questions every day and I give advice to the best of my ability. Then I direct and encourage people to go and get the proper advice. That is what we are here to do. I have people ringing me from University Hospital Limerick, UHL, who say they have not yet been vaccinated, but there are individuals who are not working within the hospital system and who are out on leave who have been called in for their vaccinations. Yesterday, I heard from people who have been called twice to get their vaccinations only to be told they are out of the hospital system. They were called twice to get it and now they are being told to come back in a few days' time, that the hospital might have it then. I have never questioned front-line staff - I commend them wholeheartedly - but I do question the management of certain hospitals in how they are managing this pandemic and their staff. People should not be called for vaccination if the vaccine is not available.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Tánaiste Fine Gael

It is always okay to ask questions, particularly if the purpose of asking the question is to seek information. It is different when people ask questions for rhetorical reasons, namely, when they are trying to make a point rather than seeking information. We all recognise that.

As to what is happening in terms of our hospitals, there have been issues from time to time in individual hospitals and on individual days of vaccines running out and so on. By and large, however, the people who are providing our vaccines in our hospitals and healthcare settings are doing a very good job.

Sometimes, in some places and on some days, things will go awry but generally they are doing a very good job. We now expect, certainly before the end of the month, that is, by the weekend after this, that everybody in and working in a nursing home will have been offered their first dose. They also will have had their second dose by the middle of February. It must be borne in mind that over 60% of deaths occurred to people who were residents in nursing homes and one should think of the different space we could be in within a few weeks' time when we have achieved that. We intend that all healthcare workers will have received their first and second dose by the end of February. We can then move on to the over-70s, who are the next group, and that will be done generally through GPs and pharmacies.

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