Statements on Northern Ireland and business schedule
The Taoiseach responds to McDonald's concerns about policing and legacy issues in Northern Ireland, but the Ceann Comhairle stops a detailed debate. McDonald keeps pressing for statements next week; the Chair says the Business Committee can consider it. The exchange then shifts into disagreement over today's and tomorrow's business, with the Taoiseach defending the Business Committee process before the House votes on the proposal.
First, for all those who remember the 1992 UDA attack on the Sean Graham bookmakers on the Lower Ormeau Road, it was a particularly shocking and upsetting episode. I understand completely how raw it still feels for many people. I understand completely the anger provoked by images of PSNI officers breaking up a small outdoor commemoration at the site and the arrest of a survivor of the attack, Mark Sykes, which took place on Friday. As the Chief Constable of the PSNI himself has acknowledged, it has not been a good week for policing in the North. However, I suggest to the Deputy that we need to tread very carefully. Reform of policing and building community confidence in policing was a most difficult process and is central to political stability in the North. I know that people feel very strongly about it but I urge the Deputy and people generally to direct that energy into the mechanisms that are in place to hold the PSNI to account. There is a Northern Ireland Policing Board and a Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland. I call on everyone in positions of political influence to avoid escalating a political argument about policing and, instead, to use the very strong accountability processes that are in place.
I call on everyone in positions of political influence to avoid escalating a political argument about policing and instead to use the very strong accountability processes that are in place. I know the Chief Constable is taking preliminary action against a number of officers. That process should be allowed to run its course. If the Chief Constable himself has questions to answer, there is a process for that too, and that should also be allowed to run its course. I think some of the statements recently are counter to the whole area of trying to build confidence in policing and that risks undermining-----
Comment on this
In terms of legacy, I just want to assure the Deputy that the Irish Government and British Government are committed to a process for dealing with legacy issues and to the full implementation of the agreements that are in place.
In respect of Deputy Barry's point, first of all, I find a difficulty with reconciling a zero Covid approach with his approach in terms of the three days. Be that as it may, if we take the Deputy's proposal, it undermines the time and space for other Deputies, backbenchers in particular, to get in. I get the sense he is trying to give his own group prioritisation in terms of speaking time, to the detriment of others.
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I have asked for statements on this matter and statements on the progress on the Stormont House Agreement. We are years waiting for the implementation of that agreement and it is being actively blocked. Are we to have those statements or not? It is a simple question.
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I have no issue with it but we are not in a position to do it this week because people were looking for significant debates on Covid.
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Every week this happens. From my perspective, I have to say that I think there is a responsibility on the Deputy's party as well as on all of us to tread carefully. The past three weeks in Northern Ireland have witnessed different parties upping the ante and elevating issues instead of looking at it from a perspective of diffusing issues. There is that responsibility as well on all of us.
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I am not interested in upping any ante. I want a debate in the Dáil on this important and pressing matter. Am I to take it that we will have statements next week?
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I ask the Taoiseach and Deputy to wait for a second. The Taoiseach has made it clear it is not possible to have the statements this week. The Business Committee can consult on this matter on Thursday when it meets and can consider if it is appropriate or possible to have such a debate next week. That, I suggest, is the best way to move the matter forward.
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I am quite astonished at the fact, given that the Taoiseach acknowledges the seriousness of the situation north of the Border and states that he wishes to see a situation of calm and orderly progress, which is what I dearly wish, that there would be any resistance to statements on this matter. I find that astonishing and I am within my rights to ask for statements on it. This matters to all of us, not just to those of who are organised in the North.
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In fairness, Deputy, I am not seeing any resistance. I am seeing that the schedule for this week is agreed and the time does not appear to be available for statements.
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Do we have the Government's agreement that it will not reject or oppose statements on these matters next week?
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I presume the Government will come to the Business Committee and set out what its position is.
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I just think there is an attempt to browbeat everybody into a particular position here. The Deputy has other mechanisms-----
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No, the Deputy is using language like "astonished" and that. The Business Committee orders the business of the House on a weekly basis and we make a contribution to the Business Committee, like every other party and every other grouping in the House. I take issue with the political grandstanding that is so evident.
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There are members of the Deputy's party questioning whether people should even be joining policing at this stage. Some of her colleagues have made that comment.
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We are taking up an awful lot of time on this particular matter. I am going to put the question. Is the business proposal for today agreed to?
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Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with today's business be agreed to."
Do you agree with this result?