Vaccine rollout and NIAC
Deputy Kelly presses the Taoiseach on the pace and targets of the vaccination programme, whether June goals remain achievable, and when NIAC will meet. The Taoiseach says the rollout has been effective, supply has been the main constraint, and NIAC will meet the next day; the exchange becomes increasingly adversarial over unanswered questions and the purpose of the advisory group.
I want to ask the Taoiseach about the vaccine roll-out. There are four components to what I am asking. The public needs to hear some answers as this is obviously the most important issue facing our nation at the moment. On 23 February, the Taoiseach stated to the nation that by the end of June up to 82% of adults would have at least their first vaccination. Fewer than two months later, the head of vaccine roll-out at the HSE, Damien McCallion, who is a very capable individual, said yesterday that he was not in a position to confirm whether the June target will be achieved. He was being diplomatic as usual as is his style, to be fair to him.
Supply is clearly an issue. I acknowledge that and I have always acknowledged that. There have been 12 changes this week alone to the dates of delivery times and volumes. This haphazard approach is worrying. How can AstraZeneca state at the beginning of the week that it would give 45,000 vaccines and then announce that only 9,000 would be delivered? I share the Taoiseach's frustration.
I want to ask the Taoiseach directly to give him an opportunity to say publicly whether we will still meet the 82% target or, as is being reported in some media, such as in the Irish Independent today, that reaching the target of 82% is now being pushed to July. Will the Taoiseach confirm that we are still going to reach that target? Will we still get 250,000 vaccines into people per week by the end of this month? That is what was committed to.
There is a second component. When will the national immunisation advisory committee meet in respect of Johnson and Johnson? We have the European Medicines Agency report. Speed is of the essence here and every day counts. Can the Taoiseach inform the House when NIAC will meet in respect of this and on the proposal relating to vaccine intervals and spreading those out?
Third, I am concerned about the vaccination centres and the volume of vaccinators. This whole issue has been a mess from the beginning. Roles are being constantly advertised. Five times advertisements have gone out looking for more. If we have enough vaccinators, why are we always advertising for more? We now want radiographers, dental hygienists, medical students etc. Some 1,100 have been vaccinated but it has been said that we need between 2,500 and 5,000.
Finally, the front page of The Irish Times on Monday reported yet another new oversight group had been set up in the Department of the Taoiseach. This group is being called the vaccine roll-out group and is to be chaired by the Secretary General of the Department of the Taoiseach. The report said the group was being set up "to avoid some of the serious political and logistical differences that have arose in rolling out the programme." Why is this being set up? Why do we need a new layer of bureaucracy? I have asked previously for a vaccine Minister and that was dismissed. The majority of people would agree with me at this stage. Is this new group really a mudguard set up by the Taoiseach around the Minister for Health, Deputy Donnelly, because of the concern the Taoiseach and his Government have with regard to the governance of the vaccine to date by the Minister for Health?
Comment on this
First, we should acknowledge that the vaccine programme has been very effective. The only qualification we ever put in terms of the roll-out of the vaccination programme was one of supply. It is well-known that we have had difficulties, in particular with AstraZeneca, in terms of supply and consistency in matching commitments to deliver with the delivery schedule and the actual supply of the vaccines. Overall, 1.238 million vaccines have been administered. It has had a significant impact on the incidence of the disease in nursing homes and, critically, a significant impact on mortality and severe illness. Likewise, it has had a significant impact with front-line healthcare workers and the over-70s. It has been effective in those over 70 years of age. The portal has now been established and the speed at which people have registered and received dates has been well commented upon in society.
Many families are delighted to see their vulnerable members getting dates for vaccines and getting vaccinated. The key impact on mortality and severe illness has to be acknowledged and it has been very effective so far. The target is still the target. I am not confirming any changes to this whatsoever but here are challenges as to supply. The Deputy has instanced some even this week with AstraZeneca. We saw last week because of decisions taken at European level and NIAC's advice in respect of the AstraZeneca vaccine and its application, which has been narrowed to 60 to 70-year-old, those clinics were cancelled. There is also the Johnson & Johnson decision at European level.
Among the key issues which fall to be determined are the interval between doses, which is being examined by NIAC in consultation with the Chief Medical Officer. There is also the issue of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine and the response to the decision by the EMA and its assessment in respect of the benefits of the Johnson & Johnson drug outweighing any risks. NIAC will consider and assess the research on that issue. There is then the issue of AstraZeneca itself and its capacity to deliver on its commitments. It has delayed a large commitment from late April to 3 May and it is saying that if it gets certain authorisations around manufacturing in certain locations that that could enhance its capacity to deliver. Its situation has been challenging from the get-go here.
Depending on the outcomes on much of that, the situation can improve significantly. If the Johnson & Johnson vaccine was made available, another 600,000 or so additional vaccines would be available in the second quarter. The issue then would be the administration of vaccines in this quarter. I will return with more information later.
Comment on this
I am aware that the Taoiseach is somewhat nervous about answering these questions but I asked four questions and he essentially ran down the clock and answered one. For the record and for the public watching, the Taoiseach of Ireland has said that at this moment in time there will be no change to the rate of 82% vaccinations by June and 250,000 by next week. The Taoiseach said there was no change. which has the effect of saying that.
The Taoiseach just refused to answer three other questions. I find it amazing that the Taoiseach of Ireland can walk in here and not know when NIAC is meeting because I asked him this directly and when it was going to make its recommendations. These recommendations are absolutely critical. Every day is a day gone. All I am asking is when this will happen. Surely, the Taoiseach must know that. I am not asking what NIAC is going to do but when it is doing it.
Is the Taoiseach confident that we will have enough vaccinators? Finally, what in the name of God is this new group? Why do we have another layer of bureaucracy? This must because of the performance of the Minister of Health, particularly over the past number of weeks.
Comment on this
Absolutely not. It has nothing to do with the performance of the Minister, Deputy Donnelly good-----
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I am just answering the questions because the Deputy has asked that they be answered. Quite frankly, I wonder what his agenda is. He should be supporting the vaccination programme-----
Comment on this
-----and not trying to undermine it and to have his moments. We have just heard the Taoiseach say X and Y. I am not interested in that kind of-----
Comment on this
These are diversion tactics. Answer the questions.
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-----infantile and juvenile politics. What I am more interested in is giving the people-----
Comment on this
He is the Taoiseach of Ireland and the people deserve to know these answers.
Comment on this
NIAC will meet tomorrow and the Deputy knows the form. It will adjudicate as it is the clinical adviser to Government and to all of us in respect of the safe use of vaccines. The Deputy is aware of this as am I. Let us not try to create an issue out of that.
The group that we have established, which the Deputy has asked about, is nothing to be concerned about. It is a very simple group that involves the HSE and NIAC because there is a relationship between advice and the operationalisation of that advice in the administration of vaccines.
Comment on this
That to me is a simple and positive thing to do. Likewise, the task force feeds into that as well because it is dealing with the supply side, the delivery schedules, and working with the pharmaceutical companies. Therefore, when decisions are made, there is full knowledge all round as to the vaccination programme. There is ongoing informal contact between all of the key decision-makers in respect of the administration of the vaccine programme. It has been a good vaccine programme and is having a beneficial impact on people.