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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Vaccine roll-out and age cohorts

Summary

Deputy Kelly pressed for transparency on vaccination delivery, the 450,000-a-week target, and how age cohorts would be handled under NIAC advice and any green certificate system. The Taoiseach said vaccines are central, the HSE is working through the logistics, and further operational plans would follow within days.

Last week, I asked the Taoiseach about the vaccine roll-out. I am going to ask him about it again this week and will probably do so every week. Unfortunately, when I raised this matter last week, dare I say it, the Taoiseach made quite a cynical charge, which was that, in essence, asking questions about the roll-out is somehow not putting on the green jersey. The Taoiseach knows I put on the green jersey numerous times throughout this crisis and will continue to do so. Please do not go down that line again.

Transparency is the Taoiseach's friend here. With respect, this is the only opportunity any of us gets to ask him questions about the most important issue facing us as a country. I note the change in language over the past 24 hours. The Minister for Health has asked us not to be fixated on the June date - or, I jest, or the "31 June" date - or on the 82% or 55% targets set by the Government. The Taoiseach has said that he is pursuing this, so there has been a change in language. It is important to point out that I and others are not fixated on it either. This is not a "gotcha" moment as the Taoiseach once referenced. These are figures and dates that the Taoiseach and the Government have set. I, and the rest of us, want to see this substantially achieved, whether it is 79% or 81%, or by the first week in June. We want to see it substantially achieved and to work with the Taoiseach in that spirit, to be fair. Everyone is dependent on this; workers, those trying to reopen businesses and people whose lives would be affected if they were infected. I welcome the fact that there have been announcements in respect of the under-50s who have been infected - they will only need one jab - and vaccinations for pregnant women.

I have a number of questions for the Taoiseach and I want him to answer them. As was eloquently pointed out by Mark Coughlan on "Prime Time" last night, the majority of Johnson & Johnson vaccines are coming at the end of June. In view of the fact that in order to reach 82%, everyone up to their late 20s would have to get their first jab by the end of June, how will the Government ensure that the Johnson & Johnson vaccine will be used for 50- to 59-year-olds without skipping that cohort and going down to younger cohorts, before then coming back to it? Is that being considered or what is the plan? Logistically, it is very difficult to see how it can work without doing so. The Johnson & Johnson vaccine is coming in late June but people from 50 to 59 years of age are supposed to have had their first vaccination by then.

In the context of the actual number of people who will be vaccinated, we are now at 190,000 a week. We were meant to be at 250,000. That is fine, that is slippage. However, in order to reach the target, we would have to be at 450,000 vaccinations a week by the middle of June. Is that achievable?

There are 480,000 people in the current cohort of 60- to 69-year-olds. The Taoiseach is among their number and I congratulate him in that regard. Some 260,000 have registered, which means that 220,000 have not. What is our plan collectively to ensure that the majority of people register? That is a huge number of people who have not registered.

Comment on this

I thank the Deputy for raising these important issues. Of course, it is extremely important to raise the vaccine question. Vaccines are a vital part of our overall strategy to keep the pressure on this virus and to protect people. First, to protect people's health and well-being and then to protect society and enable it to return to near-normal activities. The vaccines have been very effective and impactful in reducing ill health, death and rates of transmission among those who have been inoculated already. It is very evident in hospital settings in terms of front-line healthcare workers, nursing home settings and from what the data is showing for the over-70s. More than 95% of the latter will have been vaccinated this week. That shows the efficacy of the vaccines and the need to keep rolling them out.

Last week, approximately 183,000 people were vaccinated. The objective is to get vaccines out as we get them in. Some 27.5% have received their first dose and about 10.9% have received a second dose. The delivery schedule for quarter 2 is still on track if everything comes in. Everything we have said to date, working with the task force, has been based on supply, orderly delivery schedules and so on. That has not happened all of the time, as we know. We had issues with AstraZeneca which lost us some weeks. We received different advices for Johnson & Johnson which meant the HSE had to go back to operationalise that advice and go back to the logistics. Again, the HSE will now take a number of days to go through the advice from the national immunisation advisory committee, NIAC, in respect of the AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson vaccines and work it into its planning. The HSE will continue vaccinating, obviously, but will come back with a revised approach following the advice from NIAC. That is understandable.

It is important to remember that that 4.5 million vaccine doses are due in during quarter 2, which is a very high number. The delivery schedules come later in terms of the precision from week to week as to when particular shipments will come in. There was very good news today about Pfizer BioNTech. The largest ever delivery of Pfizer vaccines - 191,800 - to this country has arrived. Pfizer has proved to be particularly reliable.

As regards the Deputy's questions, the NIAC advice is being worked through. The modelling the task force in the HSE has done is on the basis of 450,000 a week and on utilisation of vaccination centres, GPs, pharmacists, the community and the allocation of all available resources. That is the level of modelling that has been done. The objective is to get as many people vaccinated as we possibly can and, notwithstanding all the obstacles and challenges that have arisen, to keep close to those targets by the end of June. Those involved are ready to go at it once we get the supplies in on schedule.

Comment on this

I sincerely wish them the best. The HSE has done a good job. It has faced very difficult challenges with the criteria changing all the time.

I acknowledge that. Of my three questions, the Taoiseach answered the one I asked about achieving 450,000 vaccinations a week. He said that figure is achievable and is being projected. He answered that question directly, which I respect.

Unless some miracle is going to happen, I do not understand how we will logistically manage the 50 to 59-year-olds with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine without moving ahead and vaccinating the younger cohorts. The projections just do not work out that way, as Mark Coughlan pointed out on "Prime Time" last night. I had the same thoughts. In addition, some 220,000 60 to 69-year-olds have not registered. We must collectively have a plan.

Of the 247,000 people who have been infected, 100,000 are aged under 50. If we take out the small percentage of those who are immunocompromised, how are we to identify those who are to receive just one vaccine?

Comment on this

According to NIAC, people in this group now need only one vaccine.

My final question is about 60 to 69-year-olds who are getting the AstraZeneca vaccine. They have to wait for 12 weeks for a second dose. If a green certificate is introduced, those aged over 70 will have received either a Pfizer or Moderna vaccine and will be fully vaccinated and those aged over 50 will have the Janssen vaccine and will be fully vaccinated. The Taoiseach can see why 60 to 69-year-olds are concerned about a green certificate and not being fully vaccinated because they have to wait for three weeks. How will that be dealt with?

Comment on this

Regarding the operational logistics the Deputy has raised in respect of various age cohorts, the HSE is working through that. It is clear, however, that we will have to get moving and get vaccinating with available vaccines as they come in. The HSE will operationalise the advice it has received.

People are continuing to register and there has been good momentum with people registering for the vaccine in the 60 to 69 age cohort. The vaccines work, are effective and the benefits clearly vastly outweigh the risks. The important point is that every vaccine that one is offered is a safe vaccine. We do not have the capacity to provide a menu of vaccines for people to choose from.

Comment on this

We just do not have the number of vaccines to do that. We have to continue as programmed and that will continue to be the case. We have to get the vaccines out as quickly as we get them in. The HSE is examining the advice from NIAC and will come forward in the next number of days with its up-to-date plan on the operationalisation of some of that advice. Some of that is challenging, as the Deputy just referred to.

Comment on this