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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Maternity hospital and abortion services

Summary

Deputy Barry marks the anniversary of repeal and argues major gaps remain in abortion access, especially around ownership of the new national maternity hospital and full service provision. The Minister says the services must be reviewed and adjusted if needed, and insists there will be a guarantee on the hospital's status and commitment to the post-repeal framework.

Today is the third anniversary of the historic vote to repeal the eighth amendment. That huge pro-woman, pro-civil rights vote was a vote for choice and an end to hypocritical Irish solutions to Irish problems. There are many outstanding issues with the subsequent legislation, including the fact that only one in ten GPs and only half the maternity hospitals are providing for abortion while at least one pregnant person a day is still being forced to travel.

However, the key outstanding issue is who will own the new national maternity hospital and whether it will provide full abortion services. Some €500 million of taxpayers' money is being spent on our new national maternity hospital. The hospital should be 100% State-owned and abortion services should be provided there in full. However, the 2020 annual general meeting of the current National Maternity Hospital was informed by its legal team that something very different was on the table. What was being looked at was for the State to gift the hospital to the St. Vincent's Healthcare Group and then to lease it for 99 years, and, along with the National Maternity Hospital medical team, the St. Vincent's Healthcare Group medical team would be granted a licence to work at the hospital.

The St. Vincent's Healthcare Group is the late successor organisation of the nuns of the Religious Sisters of Charity. They are obliged to uphold the values and vision of the founder of the Sisters of Charity, Mary Aikenhead, in other words to uphold Roman Catholic doctrine.

The former master of the National Maternity Hospital, Holles Street, Dr. Peter Boylan, put it very well in 2017. He said:

To believe that the new National Maternity Hospital will be the only hospital in the world owned by a Catholic congregation to permit sterilisation, IVF, abortion, gender reassignment surgery, and any other procedures prohibited by the Church is naive and delusional ... That approximately €300 million of public money will be spent on such a project is a scandal.

His words require only two updates. The €300 million should now read €500 million, and the same points would apply to the lay successor organisation.

In 2012, Savita Halappanavar died a preventable death in a church-run hospital and in 2018 the people voted for decisive change. The fact that the Government of which the Minister is a part has not ruled out an arrangement for our new national maternity hospital that involves less than 100% State ownership, with medical procedures 100% decided by the State's representatives, is indeed a scandal. I have two questions for the Minister. First, will he take this opportunity to guarantee to the House that the new national maternity hospital will be 100% State-owned? Second, will he also guarantee that abortion services will be fully available to women at the new national maternity hospital?

Comment on this

The Deputy is right to frame this question in the context of the vote three years ago to repeal the eighth amendment. The people are sovereign in our constitutional Republic and what we have to do now, as set out in the legislation following that vote, is to conduct a three-year review of how the new services are working, to heed what the World Health Organization and the National Women's Council of Ireland are saying about gaps in the service that may become apparent, and to adjust accordingly. Included within that will absolutely be a guarantee that the new national maternity hospital will be 100% in public ownership. It will be operated by two separate voluntary hospitals, which will provide health services without religious, ethnic or other distinction or ethos, in accordance with its operating licence. That framework will also ensure that the new national maternity hospital will have clinical, operational, financial and budgetary independence in the provision of maternity, gynaecology and neonatal services. The answer to both the Deputy's questions is "Yes" because this issue goes back to the fundamental decision made by the Irish people in that repeal vote three years ago. The decision is also in line with the legislation and what has been committed to in the programme for Government.

It is important that we build this hospital, which was originally proposed back in 2013. We are not yet even at the planning or tendering stage and as we know, projects in this country - particularly building projects - take significant time. We also have a duty to the parents, the mothers and their partners, to have the very best services. We need to proceed but will only do so on the basis of the hospital not having any clinical, operational or other leads other than the State. That is reflective of what was set out in the Irish Constitution following the repeal vote, which is that such services will be available to all our women, including in our new national maternity hospital.

Comment on this

What the Minister has just said is different from what has been said by representatives of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael. To date, they have failed to give an absolute guarantee that this hospital will be 100% owned by the State and that abortion services will be fully and freely available to women there. The Minister is at odds with what his Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael colleagues are saying. I suspect foot-dragging here on the part of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael. Both parties have a long, sorry and shameful tradition of failing to fight unhesitatingly for the civil rights of women on these issues and of pulling their punches when it comes to dealing with the Roman Catholic Church. Decisions are due on this project in the next few weeks. Will the Minister give a guarantee to the House that, if Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael come one iota short of full 100% State ownership of the hospital and full provision of abortion services to Irish women in it, the Green Party will make it an issue and would be prepared to break with the Government, if it does not do the right thing on this key church-State issue?

Comment on this

I do not have a sense that the Taoiseach, and the head of Fianna Fáil, takes such a different position. In fact, going back to the repeal vote, he took a position at that time that was probably difficult within his party. He and the Minister for Health, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, have taken similar positions in anything I have heard. It is similar with Fine Gael. I have never heard the previous Minister for Health, Deputy Harris, or the Tánaiste, Deputy Varadkar, say anything different regarding the approach on this issue, the status of the national maternity hospital or the absolute commitment across Government to ensuring that it is fully independent in all its operations. I do not expect there will be any difference on that. It does not divide this House and it does not divide Government. It is a matter of getting on and delivering the hospital, while giving absolute guarantees of its full independence, particularly in all clinical matters with which it has to deal and medical procedures it has to undertake. I see no divide or difference in the Government in that regard.

Comment on this