I want to discuss Common Agricultural Policy, CAP, reform, in particular eco-farm schemes alongside convergence. Ireland is an agricultural country with the best farm producers of quality food in the world. Farmers were encouraged over the years to invest in good faith, with the belief that they were being progressive and their hard work and the food they yielded was and still is recognised as the best in the world. They were assisted by Teagasc and other semi-State bodies to become gold standard producers. The CAP was initially introduced to drive the agricultural sector to provide safe food, which is what it did, all for the benefit of the consumer, while applying the greenest methods available for the times we are in.

Farming is the largest indigenous rural industry this country has. It is rural Ireland's biggest employer, and has proud progressive producers. The Government has pulled the rug out from underneath the sector. It agreed to disincentivise the productive farmer by introducing convergence to increase the payments of non-productive farmers who have nothing to do but sit and wait for it to happen. Why is the Government driving this policy? Does it not understand that some of those most affected will be tillage farmers? Does it not realise that this is an anti-green policy?

All it will achieve is to make tillage farmers non-viable and they will exit the industry. It may be the case that this is not the intention of the Government, but that is what will happen. The sector that we have relied on for carbon sequestration has been given the biggest kick in the teeth imaginable and left wondering what it is all about. While we are past preventing convergence, the Government must understand the consequences of going beyond 75%.

It may believe in some misguided way that it will level the playing field to go further, and it will, but not in the way that the Government or the EU expects. It will level it in that the Government will make many farmers unviable because convergence, when combined with the proposal to pay eco-schemes on a flat rate per hectare, has a high risk of making more farmers unviable. Many farmers will see a reduction of 40% in their single farm payments combining both schemes. This cannot happen.

Convergence and the new proposed eco-schemes are an attack on progressive farming. What does the Government say to the next generation of progressive farmers taking over? They are all capable, willing and able to adopt to the greening of farming in Ireland. The Government is telling them to come on in, but do their worst and it will pay them more. It is telling people to come from the top to the bottom when everyone else in the world goes the other way. Can the Taoiseach commit that there will be no talk of anything above 75% on internal convergence and that eco-scheme payments will not be an addition to the basic farm payment and will not be based on costs incurred and income foregone, which will be just another form of convergence?

I thank the Deputy for raising what is a very topical issue, as the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine is currently in Brussels working on CAP. Of course, this Government did not introduce convergence. That is the first point. The focus of the Deputy's contribution was on this Government.

This is a centrally mandated approach across the European Union and from the European Council and Parliament. It is an EU mandated policy. In the first instance, it is a system of redistribution of direct farm payment funds. It has been occurring for half a decade. It is a hugely emotive issue. Notwithstanding the fact that the matter is largely decided on in Europe, there is room for negotiation and getting the balance right.

There is room for negotiating as maximum a degree of subsidiarity as possible in implementing the proposal in Ireland. The Minister is seeking the maximum degree of subsidiarity to deal with this issue. He supports the EU Council position that convergence should be around 75% of the average by 2026, but we cannot guarantee that because the Parliament has pushed for 100% convergence. Perhaps the Deputy could talk to Mr. Mick Wallace MEP or some of the other MEPs to try to focus on getting the Parliament to reduce its ambitions in this regard. It is pushing for 100% convergence. The Portuguese Presidency has put forward compromises of between 75% and 100%. Negotiations will continue around that.

The Government has, since 2020, paused further convergence until the negotiations in Brussels are concluded because we understand the issues. There are winners and losers in the convergence process and programme. I understand up to 60,000 farmers will have gained, and if we are throwing in the greening aspect the figure could be up to €95 million. About 54,000 farmers would have lost out. It is a very difficult issue. We are very conscious of it, as are the Ministers.

Since 2015 all EU member states have used this method of payment. From the Government's perspective, we believe in food security and a viable and sustainable agriculture industry, as well as food production and food safety. The Irish food production system is probably one of the most efficient, not just in Europe but globally, and is constantly working to improve its emissions performance. That is a broader debate within Europe. We want there to be more opportunities for others to increase farming incomes around environmental programmes and so forth.

I thank the Taoiseach. I am very concerned when he tries to devolve responsibility for dealing on behalf of Irish farmers to the EU Council of Ministers or whatever it is. What comes to mind is what my mother used to say, namely, if they jumped in the river would you?

The reality is that the farmers of Ireland depend on the Government, regardless of when the process began, to negotiate on their behalf to ensure that convergence does not go beyond 75%. Our fishermen are holding a protest in Cork today because this Government and previous Governments have sold them out. There is nothing to be gained for rural Ireland from the way the Government is carrying on. The eco-scheme I spoke about is another form of convergence.

The Minister spoke on the radio this morning and denied figures from his own Department that farmers stand to lose up to 32% of their basic farm payments. He denied that was the case, even though those figures have been produced by his Department. I am very concerned that the Government is on the right road with the negotiations. I ask it to do its best for what is our greatest asset.

I would point out to the Deputy that 19 EU countries are fully converged right now. Ireland is not.

We are an agricultural nation.

I know. Were it not for successive Governments, the Common Agricultural Policy would not be as central and strong as it is currently. Ireland has been one of the great defenders of the Common Agricultural Policy for many years at European Union level. We have fought, along with a few other countries, to hold the line-----

If they jumped in the river, would the Taoiseach?

-----on food production and the Common Agricultural Policy. The Minister did not deny anything this morning. He pointed out that there is a balance. Some win and have gained on this. Quite a lot of farmers have gained and quite a number of farmers have lost out because of convergence. That is the point the Minister was making this morning.

The Minister denied his own figures.

We have got to look at other initiatives, including environmental initiatives, both to increase incomes for farming and to maintain the backbone of the direct payments system, which is key to farmers. We understand that. The direct payments system is absolutely essential as a backbone for farmers to underpin their projections and sustainability from an income perspective into the future.