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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

AstraZeneca second doses

Summary

Deputy Kelly raised concern about delayed second AstraZeneca doses for older age groups and health workers, urging action as the Delta variant spread. The Taoiseach said the interval was being shortened, with the HSE moving the schedule from 12 weeks to eight and progress already under way.

For many weeks and, indeed, months, I have been raising the same issue with the Taoiseach in regard to people in the 60 to 69 age group, some people in cohorts 4 and 7, and also some healthcare workers, all of whom were vaccinated with AstraZeneca and who initially had a 14-week wait for their second dose and then a 12-week wait. I am not an immunologist or a scientist, and nor is the Taoiseach, but I believe in common sense. We have a collective need to address this issue now because there is a race on between, one, the Delta variant coming into our country and, two, the vaccination programme we are doing.

The issue is this: these are the most vulnerable people but, compared with their children and many individuals in their 40s, they are going to have to wait for some period before they are vaccinated. We supported the Government in respect of the age-based roll-out but the latter has been negated as a result of this situation. There are 460,000 people in these categories and they will have to wait up to 12 weeks. We are going to have to do something about this. I have raised this with the Taoiseach in a genuine way, week after week. Respectfully, he knows that. He asked for time and said the Government was looking at it and that the national immunisation advisory committee, NIAC, was looking at it.

Since I first raised this issue, I have been inundated with messages. There is deep concern. That concern is intergenerational and involves grandchildren who are worried about their grandparents and sons, daughters, nieces and nephews who are worried about their parents, uncles and aunts. We know from a study in Britain that if a person has the first dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine, he or she is approximately 33% inoculated against the Delta variant. That leaves a major risk for these people. In that light, I ask the Taoiseach if, working with NIAC and, in particular, the HSE, he will bring forward the second dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine for this group of people? This would ensure that, instead of waiting until the end of July, August or whenever, in a few weeks' time - if supplies are available - all of these people can get their second inoculation. The study in the UK to which I refer shows these individuals will have 80% protection against the Delta variant.

I do not want to get into what the Minister for Health said previously about reducing the period to five weeks because, to be honest, that was a bit of sleight of hand. We need a concrete decision from the Government. These are the most vulnerable people. It is ridiculous that younger people are being fully vaccinated. It is ridiculous that the individuals to whom I refer, who comprise the oldest group in the country to not be fully vaccinated - or at least not yet - cannot travel or do everything that everyone else will hopefully be able to do and have been left in a situation whereby the supposed vaccine bonus will not apply at the level previously indicated. I appeal to the Taoiseach to give us good news that we will be able to bring forward the second dose of AstraZeneca in particular for this cohort.

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Deputy Kelly readily acknowledged that he is not an immunologist or an expert in this field.

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I do common sense though.

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Most people who say they are not experts then go back to the age-old notion of common sense as a back-up. The point is that the vaccination programme is going well and that it is going well through the age cohort approach and through the vaccination centres. One of the most pleasing aspects of it is the very high level of participation by people as we go down through the age cohorts. Our level of participation is very high relative to our European counterparts and other countries and that is giving good protection to society as a whole. We are close the point where 58% of people will have had their first dose and in the region of 27% will have had their second dose. That is very good progress indeed. Everything is dependent on supplies of both the mRNA vaccines and the AstraZeneca vaccine. We want to keep the programme on target. What the Deputy is suggesting would delay the programme overall, potentially. I am sorry, is he suggesting the mixing of vaccines?

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No, but I am coming to that.

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The Deputy needs to be fully up front-----

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The Taoiseach is answering a question.

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-----about what he is proposing. In terms of AstraZeneca-----

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That is not appropriate. I never said that so the Taoiseach is answering a question I did not even ask.

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In the context of the AstraZeneca vaccine, the announcement has already been made that the second dose is being brought forward. What was to have taken nine weeks, namely, the administering of the second dose, will now take five. That is happening as we speak and the HSE is engaged with that plan. Basically, we will be finishing the second dose of AstraZeneca three to four weeks earlier than was to have been the case. However, we need the necessary supplies of the AstraZeneca vaccine and, in particular, the mRNA vaccines, to keep coming in over the next number of weeks in order to make progress down the age cohorts, otherwise we will delay the vaccination programme itself. As the Deputy knows, this is because of the age restrictions when it comes to administering the AstraZeneca and Jansen vaccines.

NIAC has given recommendations in that regard to the HSE.

We must also bear in mind that the vaccination programme is working. What we have learned is that once we start changing or giving mixed signals, this can disrupt the vaccination programme and genuinely undermine it. I am not saying anybody wants to do that in making new suggestions or proposals. That has been the experience and it can affect vaccination take-up and so on. The vaccination programme has worked on the basis that people have received vaccines as they have become available. We are looking at approximately 4.1 million doses to be supplied by the end of quarter 2. We need to keep going. Let us not disrupt a model that is working well right now.

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I have been raising this matter repeatedly for a couple of months and, in fairness, the Taoiseach's tone just now was appalling if he was using the matter in a political way. I did not raise the question of a second mRNA vaccine but I had asked if that option had been considered by NIAC. I did not raise it today, although I will always make suggestions that might be considered.

I raise this matter for the 460,000 affected people and I am delighted the Taoiseach has confirmed that the second dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine is being brought forward. Will he confirm that by the middle of July every person in that affected cohort, particularly those between 60 and 69, will have a date for the second dose of AstraZeneca to be administered, which would see 80% efficacy against Covid-19?

Will the Taoiseach look at the script issued on the vaccine bonus? It probably should be reissued. We have been told that because the Janssen vaccine is going to pharmacies, there are not enough people to take up all the doses in the vials. Will the Taoiseach ask for that to be looked at? It would be terrible to see vaccines wasted. If required, common sense and discretion for pharmacists should be the order of the day.

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I will have the matter of the Janssen vaccines and its administration in pharmacies looked at. The HSE has already announced that it will move from the current 12-week interval for AstraZeneca vaccine doses down to eight weeks. It has said that within five weeks, we will achieve that eight-week interval. I can double-check that with the HSE for the Deputy but that is the target. Essentially, it is compressing that process.

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It is what I have been seeking for months.

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It was announced publicly.

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Not in that detail.

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I am always glad to help or oblige the Deputy on this. It is good news and important. The big issue all along has been supply and the mRNA vaccines in particular have played an outstanding role. AstraZeneca has increased its supply and we are getting greater visibility over that supply, which is positive. Again, we hope the manufacturers and the global supply chain can improve their performance.

The vaccine bonus is what it is. It will continuously be reviewed by the Chief Medical Officer and his team. The latest data from Public Health England show that two doses of AstraZeneca are 92% effective against hospitalisation from the Delta variant and 86% effective against the Alpha variant. That is good news as well.

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