Last week, the Tánaiste, on his own behalf and presumably on behalf of the Government, made remarks that can only be described as woefully belated in respect of the new national maternity hospital. It is fair to say that we are now looking at a mess with the fingerprints of successive Governments all over it dating back to 2013, when James Reilly was Minister for Health and Children, which is more than eight years ago. Yet, to this day a situation persists where women in this State cannot get the care that they and we deserve in a world-class hospital facility.

Why is it that the Government is so late in expressing concerns about ownership of the land on which the hospital is to be built and about the governance model? It cannot say that it was not told about this. The level of public concern and, indeed, anger at any involvement by the Sisters of Charity in the governance of the hospital has been very well flagged for many years, as have the very well-founded concerns regarding the ownership of the land on which this hospital is to be located and what this means for the State’s substantial investment in the new hospital. This project is six years behind schedule and costs have escalated, ballooned by more than €500 million in that time. This project could easily top the €1 billion mark. Ghosts of the children’s hospital, in financial terms, echo through this whole saga.

A Sinn Féin motion was passed by the Dáil in 2017 and supported by the Taoiseach’s party, Fianna Fáil, at the time. It called for the new national maternity hospital to remain entirely within public ownership with legally guaranteed independence from all non-medical influence in its clinical operations. That remains the absolute bottom line and is not a matter of preference.

It is now beyond belief that more than €40 million has been invested in respect of a site that is not in the full ownership of the State or that anyone or any Government would countenance investing hundreds of millions of euro in public moneys in infrastructure on a site that is not fully owned by the State.

The Sisters of Charity say that at no stage did any Government or Minister approach them on the subject of purchasing the site in question. We also know, and they confirm, that the Department of Health did agree in principle to a convoluted process of establishing a private trust with a board not appointed by the Minister and with the State spending hundreds of millions of euro on a hospital on land that it does not own.

This is a mess that goes way back to former Ministers, James Reilly and Deputies Varadkar and Harris, and it is now unfolding on the watch of the Minister, Deputy Donnelly. This needs to be urgently sorted. What does the Taoiseach propose to do on this matter? It is clear in yesterday evening’s statement that the Sisters of Charity are resisting handing over and transferring freehold of the site in question. They cite governance reasons for that. That will raise very deep concerns and suspicions as to the full bona fide independence of the hospital. Where do we go now to secure this hospital in full public ownership?

The Deputy has laid out the chronology of the situation on the new national maternity hospital and a new modern facility. The first prerequisite and objective of Government is to make sure that we can build a hospital that serves the women and children of the nation in the years ahead and that we build a first-class maternity facility with a neonatal facility co-located with a tertiary hospital. This has been the strategy in the development of maternity hospitals now for quite some time.

That said, there has been a dispute between the two voluntary hospitals involved. This is well-known and we had the Mulvey report and mediation that the then Government facilitated for the two hospitals. We are very clear that parallel with ensuring the best of modern care for women in this country in a modern, state-of-the-art maternity facility, there has to be proper State governance and ownership of the hospital itself. There have been ongoing negotiations. This Government is in office for 12 months. The Minister is treating, and will treat, this matter urgently and is engaging in consultations and meetings with the stakeholders involved.

There is an issue around the governance model and in the public interest being represented in respect of that governance. I do not intend to discuss detailed costs because that is not helpful until we see tenders, and so on. We cannot be specific about costs and people should not be bandying around hundreds of millions of euro because those are just guesstimates at this stage. We need more in terms of the public articulation of figures. The tendering processes, etc., will dictate to a certain extent that reality. The programme for Government committed this Government to conclude the governance arrangements and to commence the building of the new maternity hospital at St. Vincent’s University Hospital Dublin and that is what we intend to do through engagement with the stakeholders.

However, I am very conscious of the fact that when it comes to the ownership issue, the State is investing here and that it is taxpayer funding that is facilitating the construction of this hospital. Equally, in the new era that we are in now and as we go forward, as the State invests, the State should own.

There is a history to this, which predates this Government. We have to deal with it, but it involves two voluntary hospitals coming together on a site that is owned by one of the hospitals. The State has made significant investment in St. Vincent’s University Hospital Dublin over the years and continues to invest in both current and capital expenditure in the hospital proper. The State will fund the construction of the maternity hospital itself in its entirety and that has to be taken on board in respect of agreements and the conclusion of discussions on both the issues around ownership and governance arrangements. That is the intent of Government as it engages with the stakeholders on this particular issue.

I am deeply conscious and acutely aware of the less than optimal conditions and facilities now obtaining in the current facility and that has been the case for quite a number of years. That is why there has been a genuine sense to bring this to a conclusion because the women of Ireland deserve better facilities than are currently available in Holles Street.

It is not only in the National Maternity Hospital that facilities are suboptimal. I could bring the Taoiseach to the Rotunda Hospital Dublin and could recite for him the endless process that this hospital has endured to secure funding to carry on safe service provision. I see that the Minister is leaving the Chamber now and he is well aware of what I am talking about.

I am trying to figure out what the Taoiseach means in his response because it is a case of the State funding this infrastructure and facility but it is in fact the people or the taxpayer who are funding this.

The Taoiseach says he is in favour of State spend, meaning State ownership, but will he be even more explicit than that? A message today has to go to the Sisters of Charity, with the greatest of respect to them. As people who represent the citizens and taxpayers of the State, we need to say loudly and clearly that the site in question must be in the ownership of the State-----

I thank the Deputy.

That is the beginning, the middle and the end of it. Equivocating on the point does not assist-----

Time is up, please, Deputy.

-----in the shared objective of providing those world-class services for the women and neonates the Taoiseach referred to. Will he be specific and send that message? The Sisters of Charity communicated with all of us by means of a press release. I think it appropriate that an answer is heard-----

I think it appropriate that the Deputy respect the ruling of the House. Time is up, please.

-----from the Head of Government as to his expectations. I thank the Ceann Comhairle.

My understanding is that St. Vincent's Healthcare Group communicated to us, not necessarily the Sisters of Charity, to be precise about it. The Minister is going to engage with both groups and others in that respect. He is back in the Chamber now, I point out in the context of the Deputy's reference. I am not sure what she is proposing, other than to raise the issue. I have been consistent from the get-go about this project in respect of ownership and the taxpayer being protected but also in terms of governance. The State is building a hospital, and the outcome of the negotiations so far do not, in my view, reflect what should be the case in respect of the governance issue and the public interest being represented on the board. Equally, there are issues, as I said, with the ownership of the facility and the protection of the taxpayer’s investment. There is also the core issue, which the current agreement deals with in my view. It relates to ring-fencing and ensuring that no religious ethos-----

I thank the Taoiseach. The time is up.

-----in any shape or form, influences the operation of the hospital-----

Excuse me, Taoiseach. The time is up.