Time is up. We move to Solidarity-People Before Profit. I call Deputy Smith.

Or, indeed, the other way round. Tá sé thar a bheith tábhachtach, aontaím leis an Taoiseach, go mbeadh an t-ospidéal máithreachais neamhspleách ar an eaglais. Is í an cheist atá os comhair na Dála anois ná cad a dhéanfaidh an Taoiseach agus an Rialtas chun an neamhspleáchas sin a chur chun cinn?

The Taoiseach mentioned that yesterday’s statement came from the board of directors of St. Vincent's Healthcare Group. This is not to cast aspersions on anyone but it is to state the facts; the people of Ireland should know who is on the board of directors of that group. They are James Menton, chair, Dr. David Brophy, Deirdre Burns, John Compton, Gerard Flood, Ann Hargaden, Myles Lee, Sharen McCabe, Dr. Rhona Mahony and Imelda Reynolds. We need to find out what they are thinking and why they think the way they do. As I said in the debate on the motion earlier, this is not about the integrated healthcare needs of women and babies; this is about the integrated needs of the investment of that board of directors, and the future, because they hold the privilege of being able to remortgage or sell that land. That land belongs to the people of Ireland and that hospital should fully belong to the people of Ireland.

I notice that many Ministers have eulogised the history of the Sisters of Charity in jumping into gaps that were there, and that these gaps just happened in the history of the State. These gaps were created. Although the Taoiseach has said that this history predates his Government, which it certainly does, it does not predate his party. Fianna Fáil were at the heart of the arrangements with the church to provide health and education in this country. The question for the Taoiseach is a defining one. Will he ensure that the State will now do what it is supposed to do and take full control of the ownership, ethos and delivery of services of that hospital? It is not just the idea of ownership and control that matters; it is also ultimately about the accountability of the State to the women and people of Ireland, including the accountability of the Minister, the Taoiseach, the Government and, indeed, future Governments as it is not just about the current one. Who controls the land matters. It means that if we get control of the land as a State and a society, we will control the ethos and the business that goes on there, who gets employed there and who runs it. It is clear, and it has been said time and time again, that the constitution of this group does not prioritise the people of Ireland. It actually prioritises an ethos that dates back to the era of Mother Mary Aikenhead.

I do not accept that the Sisters of Charity have no interest in this. The St. Vincent's Holdings group has indicated that it has full interest in this. The way we see it as a people and as a gender - women who can reproduce in this country - this is a very dangerous move if we do not get full ownership and accountability of the new national maternity hospital that workers are paying for.

Ar dtús, táim den tuairim go mbeidh an t-ospidéal seo neamhspleách ar an eaglais. Táim den tuairim sin ón méid atá léirithe sna conarthaí go dtí seo agus ón méid a pléadh idir an HSE agus na boird éagsúla. Ní bheidh aon tionchar ag an eaglais ar an ospidéal seo. I am strongly of the view that there will be no religious ethos influence on this hospital. That will not be the case, but the Deputy raised an interesting point about ownership. I will not get into the historic view which she, very simplistically, linked a single party to how the State evolved, and so on. We can argue that point on another day. I note people like Paddy Hillery, for example, who developed the first major State education at second level, and comprehensive and community level, and Seán Moylan who, years earlier, developed the vocational education committee. Indeed, there were the free education initiatives of Donogh O'Malley. People evolve and one cannot telescope the views of today back to earlier decades. I have a very open view on history but I do not ideologically affix my perspectives on history. I do not intend to do so now, but I take the point that ownership is important and there should be no remortgaging of this site in the future by the hospital group. The Government is not satisfied that this should be the case at all. It is clear and united on that issue.

I reiterate the point I made to Deputy Kelly that, as the church exits institutions of this kind, what replaces it should concern us more in terms of governance and who trustees or various companies will represent. That is a more fundamental point going into the future, given the scale and nature of State investment in the facility. I am very much of the view that if the State is building something, the State should own it. This has a history because of the fact that two voluntary hospitals have come together. The public interest demands that there be co-location; let us be clear about that. It demands that. I sometimes ask why it takes so long to build hospitals in this country. We had the same issue with Tallaght many years earlier, with protracted negotiations. I was involved in getting the maternity and neonatal unit built in Cork University Hospital. Thankfully, two State hospitals were merging, and the private hospital agreed to cease operations to facilitate the establishment of one major maternity hospital for that region with a state-of-the-art neonatal facility. It has taken much longer to get this facility in Dublin up and running.

I thank the Taoiseach. Time is up.

It has been agreed that there should be co-location because that offers better outcomes for mothers and babies, hence, that has created a context to this issue.

I will not engage in the historical debate with the Taoiseach. He has his view and I have mine, but historians have also outlined their view. It was not just Fianna Fáil but it was primarily Fianna Fáil. Fine Gael was also up to its eyes in giving the gaps to the church to fill in terms of health and education, and we live with that legacy. Let us remember Dr. Noel Browne and the struggle he engaged in to get free maternity care for women.

As the church exits, the Taoiseach asked what will replace it and that is a very good question. Will it be more privatisation of our healthcare system? The Taoiseach has said he is not in favour of that, yet we are building a national children’s hospital with private suites already allocated in it. We must move away from two-tier medicine. We need a national health service and I agree entirely with the great socialist, Deputy Alan Kelly, who said the Taoiseach should nationalise the entire St. Vincent’s complex. I would go further, as a radical socialist, and suggest that we nationalise the entire health service. That is what is required and, ultimately, that is where we are headed. What we need to deal with now is the question of who owns the new national maternity hospital.

I thank the Deputy. Time is up.

This is a defining moment for the Taoiseach.

The Government will own the new hospital. The issue is the site, which the Government wants to own as well. A religious ethos will have no influence whatsoever in the running of the hospital, nor should the site or the hospital be mortgaged.

Furthermore, strong public interest must be reflected on the board of the new hospital, given the nature and scale of the investment by the State in this new hospital. That is where the State stands. The Minister will engage with the stakeholders and will make the views of Government and the Oireachtas known. The St. Vincent’s Hospital Group should take note of the consensus in the Oireachtas on this issue, reflect on that and respond appropriately as the Minister engages with it and other stakeholders.