Zappone texts and deleted messages
Deputy McDonald challenges the Taoiseach over Minister Coveney deleting texts about Katherine Zappone’s appointment and failing to file them. The Taoiseach says the Minister has explained himself, rejects any claim that the law was broken, and says deletion of Government records should not happen.
We will move straight ahead with Leaders' Questions. I welcome the leader of Sinn Féin, Deputy McDonald, for the first question.
Comment on this
I thank the Ceann Comhairle. It is great to be back in our natural habitat. Cuirim fáilte ar ais roimh gach duine.
This evening we will debate a motion of confidence in the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Coveney, over his handling of the appointment of Katherine Zappone as a special envoy, but for now I want to raise a very concerning aspect of this controversy, that is, the Minister's admission that he deleted texts between himself and the Tánaiste, Deputy Varadkar, regarding the appointment. He deleted these texts and failed to send the communications to his Department for filing and storage.
As the Taoiseach knows, these were no ordinary texts. These were communications between two of his senior Cabinet Ministers in relation to Government Buildings. They were official Government information and communications. The Freedom of Information Act is very clear. Communications carried out on electronic devices, such as phones, or by email relating to the official function of a Minister are subject to that legislation.
By way of explanation, the Minister tells us he routinely deletes texts from his phone when he considers a conversation to have concluded. It is not the prerogative of any Minister to delete official Government communications based on personal preference or judgments. The Minister, Deputy Coveney, was obliged to retain those texts under the law. That a senior Minister was so convinced that he had the right to delete Government records is extremely troubling because it goes to the heart of transparency, public interest and accountability in government. Freedom of information is in place to allow citizens to obtain information about decisions that affect their lives and our society. It is fundamental to democracy, journalism and activism, and it is critical in holding power to account. It is essential to good government.
Therefore, a Minister erasing Government records in such a fashion stinks to the high heavens. It is an abuse of office, plain and simple. It is corrosive to politics and insulting to people. This behaviour was unacceptable and it has angered people, not least because it demonstrates breathtaking arrogance. Tá fearg ar dhaoine. Bhí sé seo glic agus bhí sé mealltach. Tá damáiste déanta don pholaitíocht ag an Aire, an Teachta Coveney, agus ag an Rialtas. Is ábhar an-tábhachtach é seo.
This controversy raises further questions around how pervasive this behaviour is in government. This was not sloppy behaviour. It was about a Minister deliberately erasing Government records. I would like the Taoiseach to establish for us today how widespread this practice is within his Government. Who else in the Cabinet deletes texts, documents and communications in this way?
What other Ministers are doing this? Has he spoken to each of his Ministers and has he asked them directly if they have deleted Government communications in this way? Will the Taoiseach tell the House what action he has taken as Head of Government over the past eight weeks to stamp out this behaviour and to guarantee it will cease?
Comment on this
First of all, I welcome the fact we are back in the Chamber to conduct our business as a Parliament and as Dáil Éireann, and I look forward to working with all parties in pursuance of the issues that challenge this country.
I agree with the Deputy that accountability and transparency is of great importance to the House and on issues of substance. The Minister for Foreign Affairs has provided a very full explanation to the Oireachtas committee and has gone before that committee twice in respect of this issue, which I remind people relates to the appointment of a part-time envoy, an appointment that did not go ahead subsequently.
In my view the procedure leading to that was wrong and should not have happened. The Minister has apologised, including to the Oireachtas committee twice, and he has apologised to me as to what and how it happened.
In the broader context, tá a fhios agam go bhfuil muintir na tíre buartha faoi seo ach tá siad buartha faoi an-chuid mar aon leis seo. Níl aon amhras ar bith agam ach gurb iad na rudaí is tábhachtaí atá os comhair an phobail anois ná an víreas corónach, cúrsaí sláinte agus cúrsaí tithíochta. Is iad sin na rudaí is tábhachtaí a bhaineann le pobal na tíre seo agus ní féidir linn éirí as sin. In other words the most important and substantive issues that people mention and are very concerned about are health services, housing, Covid-19 and many other issues. We need a fair, balanced and proportionate response to this issue. The tabling of the motion of confidence is not such a proportionate response from Deputy McDonald or her party, but that is their decision.
The Deputy might also look into her own cupboard in respect of the appointment of people to public positions because appointing its own to a range of public positions is the hallmark of the Sinn Féin approach when in government. The party has made the city of Derry its fiefdom in terms of patronage. This party is not on steady ground when it is attacking others in respect of appointing people to positions. The position in question was a part-time one while Sinn Féin has appointed its own to very senior positions as a member of Government.
On the deletion of texts, any texts relating to public or Government business should not be deleted. I have made that clear to all of my Government colleagues. The Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Coveney, was not acting in bad faith here and he has explained to the committee the circumstances and context in which he took that action. At all times I genuinely believe he has been acting in good faith. I know that when Deputy McDonald has been dealing with Deputy Coveney in respect of Northern Ireland or foreign affairs issues, there is nobody in the House who would argue that he has not acted in good faith and with sincerity and honesty. He can be faulted in certain respects - no doubt about it - in terms of this appointment; he himself acknowledges that himself. As I have said, however, any records pertaining to Government business should not be deleted.
Comment on this
This is a substantive and serious issue. Last year the Tánaiste, Deputy Varadkar, admitted to deleting texts in respect of the leaking of a confidential Government document at the time, the GP contract. That scandal came to light on the Taoiseach’s watch and yet here we are, 12 months later, and we have a repeat of that behaviour. It is very clear to me from the Taoiseach’s answer that he has done nothing about this.
I put it to the Taoiseach very directly that he has conceded the point that his Minister, Deputy Coveney, breached the law.
Can the Taoiseach clarify that is in fact the case? I ask him again what he has done or what he proposes to do about that by way of sanction. I ask him again to clarify for us which other Cabinet colleagues behave in this way. Which other members of his Government are also in breach of the freedom of information stipulations, and what will he do about that? The Taoiseach, after all, is in charge.
Comment on this
The Minister, Deputy Coveney, has breached the law; the Taoiseach has conceded as much. Who else is at this?
Comment on this
Is the entirety of the Cabinet at this?
Comment on this
I have not conceded anything about anybody breaking the law, and the Deputy should not try to put words into my mouth.
Comment on this
The Deputy has made an assertion in terms of breaching the law that I have no evidence of. She should play this one straight and fair in her assertions. She is not the person to conduct an investigation into the Minister in respect of the law or the breach of the law, but I have made it very clear-----
Comment on this
Absolutely. I said that. The Taoiseach should be that person, though.
Comment on this
No I should not, actually, but I have made it very clear that the deletion of Government records in any shape or form, or in any format, should not happen. I refer to anything that relates to the conduct of Government business. The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform is bringing forward to the Government a memorandum in respect of a review of the Freedom of Information Act and indicated that during the summer. That will come before the Government very shortly, perhaps next week, in respect of the broader operation and working of the Act.