I welcome yesterday's announcement on agriculture. I agree with convergence, as outlined in Pillar 1.

With Pillar 2, there is much concern among the communities that deliver LEADER that there is a shortfall of approximately €70 million. This is at a time when communities and especially the agricultural sector are stepping up to the mark when it comes to climate action.

In this regard, last Monday a group of us from the agriculture committee visited Devenish Farm in Meath. We spent five or six hours going around the farm looking at how it measured hedgerows and carbon on the trees and how it used different types of grasses. It is a carbon-neutral farm. It is one of the main farms of eight or nine throughout the world picked so different universities can study these matters. To put it simply, it is a private entity.

There are a couple of points between agriculture and climate action. In light of developments we have heard of from the people involved with LEADER and their view that there is a shortfall, will the Government pick up that gap to ensure this programme, which is vital to rural communities, will be delivered?

A private company is able to nail down the amount of carbon sequestered in trees or hedgerows by using light detection and ranging, LiDAR, systems on a helicopter. In the past week or two, I have heard that Teagasc, which gets a lot of money from the State, and the Government are not looking at hedgerows in considering the carbon tonnage sequestered around the country. We are looking at carbon budgets but we still do not know where we are starting because we do not know what is sequestered. It is a damn bad way of doing things and puts pressure on people.

The agricultural community does not mind stepping up to the mark but it does not want to have to act with false figures. Why has the Government not brought in expertise from Devenish Farm, which has done all this work, to help Teagasc or the Government itself to formulate more accurate figures?

My final question relates to electricity supply and power. The Minister stated in the past week in an interview with the farming section of the Irish Independent that he would not rule out the reopening of Shannonbridge and Lanesborough power stations. Will he elaborate on this and explain what he means?

I thank the Deputy for his questions. They cover two different matters so I will start with his first point. I also visited the farm he mentioned in Louth last month. Sorry, it was in Meath. There is a big difference. I was very impressed. The mapping of soils and what goes on is very impressive. Similar to what I have seen and heard about the UCD Lyons Farm, there is use of mixed sward grass systems that is a game changer because it is more resilient in flood and drought conditions. It has deeper root systems and it is a game changer because it brings a significant reduction in nitrogen use and cost. I understood when I was there in September that they had been able to get their sheep to market five or six weeks quicker. They compared flocks on the mixed sward grass versus the normal perennial rye grass sward. As any farmer knows, getting animals to market that much quicker gives a hell of an advantage. I absolutely agree with the Deputy that the farm is a good example of how good environmental practice is going to be good for farming. A key element is knowledge about the soil, including quality and farming with different soils.

The final CAP payment is still in consultation with stakeholders and others. The final design of the new Common Agricultural Policy scheme is yet to be agreed. To my mind it is a significant step in the right direction of paying farmers for good environmental services in both Pillar 1 and Pillar 2. When my party members sat where the Deputy is now, we spoke about much of what is now contained in the plans. Hedgerows are critical but we spoke many times about giving farmers the ability to plant trees while still farming. This might involve planting a number of trees per hectare and recognising this as a green measure to allow a farmer meet the requirements for payments.

That is a really good example of how we could meet our carbon budgets and improve farming while giving farmers payments for the ability they have to be flexible and know their land best and what goes best in what place. That is instead of covering a farm with clear-fell monoculture forest. We should allow farmers to use their smarts for areas they may not use now but which may be good for a bit of forestry. What we spoke about is now starting to be a paid enterprise.

I do not have the full details for the LEADER budget but my understanding is the allocation in the revised CAP plan is similar to what was in the previous seven years and that there is not a decrease. I have to check that and come back to the Deputy. As I stated, the final details of the CAP payments are subject to consultation. It will be December before they are completely finalised. I will reply to the electricity supply query later.

I thank the Minister. We have spoken about this many times but talking about it and doing it are two different things. My understanding from the people involved with LEADER for many years is that it will be approximately €70 million or €80 million down. Will the Government make up that deficit if it exists? It is a simple and straightforward question.

We have spoken about hedgerows. I drive every day from Galway and for every yard of the road, there are plenty of hedgerows. My understanding is they should be counted for sequestration purposes. My understanding was that we were going down that road and we would have it done. I have heard in the past week that this will not be one method of offset and farmers will not have this as a mitigating measure when there are so many hedgerows around the country. There is no point foisting something on farmers if we do not know the accurate figures before we start. The Minister might comment on Lanesborough and Shannonbridge before the lights go out.

Stopping the lights going out is our critical concern. The Deputy knows there has been much public commentary about this because we had two large gas plants down and auctions that had not delivered new back-up power, meaning we are very tight for the next number of years. I do not believe the details are finalised but in speaking with the ESB and others, it seems the ESB is looking at those two former stations. I understand one of them is starting to install some of the battery back-up systems that will give us the sort of capability to provide energy security. It means that in peak hours, such as the two-hour peak between 5 p.m. and 7 p.m., we could have back-up capability to be able to reinforce the grid and keep voltage and frequency stability. There are many skills in the midlands in managing the grid and those two stations may well be very critical and useful in providing that back-up and system management services that electricity systems now need. It is in that regard I made the comments to a newspaper two weeks ago.

What about the trees?

I will have to come back to the Deputy about the trees on another day.