Review of termination of pregnancy law
Deputy Alan Kelly challenged the Tánaiste on whether the promised review of the abortion legislation would include policy and possible legal changes, arguing the terms were too narrow and needed legislative scrutiny. The Tánaiste said he trusted women, recalled his role in the referendum process, and agreed to check the review’s terms of reference and come back with a fuller answer.
I want to ask the Tánaiste a very serious question. Does he trust the women of Ireland? Yesterday, the Minister for Health announced the terms of a review of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018.
When this historic legislation was debated and passed three years ago, it was the understanding of Members of this House that there would be a review of the operation of the Act, inclusive of policy. The Minister is instead only planning a review to see if it is operating as intended and is not looking at the legislation underpinning it. Did the Tánaiste, as a member of the Cabinet, sign off on this approach?
This review will not consider any policy changes to the Act. It amounts to a predetermined process and it is at odds with previous statutory reviews. How can the Minister for Health realistically just look at how this legislation is currently operating, without in any way considering the constraints on policy caused by the law? How can the Minister and the Tánaiste's Government be agnostic on this matter? Was this a political decision? The Minister said that the experiences of women would be a critical source of information for the review, but he does not intend to address the major problems they have encountered.
This legislation has a range of well-known problems. Only ten maternity units offer full termination services as well as very few GPs. There are also geographical issues across the board. Three years on, legislation for safe access zones around maternity hospitals has not been published. The reality for women is that the three-day waiting period and 12-week limit create serious access problems. Imagine that 375 women travelled to the UK last year in the middle of a global pandemic. I know some of them. There are real problems with this legislation and it should be reviewed. We have had many statutory reviews of legislation in recent years that have looked at legal frameworks. The Tánaiste was part of those when he was a Minister and the Taoiseach.
Why is this legislation being treated differently? The first review of the Regulation of Lobbying Act 2015 specifically examined how it could be improved. The same process was followed for the Gender Recognition Act 2015 in the review of 2018, which took on board specifically the views of those affected by the legislation. It was the same with the Protected Disclosures Act 2014 in July 2019. The reviews of those three Acts included the legislation. Here, however, the Tánaiste's Government has now decided, and I am hoping to find out whether it was him, the Cabinet or the Minister alone, that this legislation will be treated differently.
What is the point of a review of the operation of the law on terminations in Ireland if it does not take on board the concerns of those impacted by the constraints of the legislation in the first place? Is the Tánaiste categorically ruling out any changes to the law? If so, why? What is the point of such a review if it is not going to change anything beyond service provision?
Why is this review being treated differently? Does the Government not trust the women of Ireland? Is the reality instead that the Government is taking this course because so many of the members of Fianna Fáil, the Tánaiste's partners in government, opposed and voted against this legislation in the first place and this is the most politically expedient thing to do?
Comment on this
I trust the women of Ireland and this Government trusts the women of Ireland. I led the Government that allowed people to have their say on the eighth amendment. Indeed, on my first day as Taoiseach, I said that one thing I would do would be to allow the people of Ireland to have a vote and to make a decision on that matter. It was not politically expedient; it was something that I thought was the right thing to do, and I am glad that I did it. The people answered that question and did so with a clear majority. While I respect all sides in this debate, the result of that referendum was very clear and decisive.
Regarding the review, I do not recall having seen the terms of reference. That is not to say that I did not. As can be imagined, many things cross my desk and I will check up on what the terms of reference are and if they have been signed-off on by the Government yet. I do not think they have, but it is possible that they have been. I will check that out. I agree with the basic point made by the Deputy that we should, at least at some point, examine some of the issues around the legislation. The Deputy mentioned the issue of safe access zones and that is certainly one. He also mentioned the issue of the waiting period. Many people feel it is a good idea. I appreciate that some people do not. We must also look at the issue, which comes up quite a good deal now, regarding non-fatal foetal abnormalities, which is a difficult aspect and one of the reasons people travel to the UK. Like I said, however, I do not have the terms of reference in front of me. Later in the day, I will see if they have been agreed and take it up from there.
Comment on this
I can sense the Tánaiste is uncomfortable with this question. The Minister was agnostic yesterday, and the Tánaiste seems now to be struggling. As the Tánaiste in this Government, the fact he cannot remember whether such an important matter was signed-off by the Government is quite amazing. It shows the priorities of the Government. Yesterday, my colleague, Senator Annie Hoey, asked the Minister about policy recommendations. If they emerged, although they probably cannot because the terms of reference are so narrow, would that constitute a reason to bring changes to the legislation? The Minister's answer was "possibly". What sort of Minister would say he would "possibly" bring in changes to legislation if such an important review recommended them? It is almost impossible, however, because the terms of reference are so narrow.
I wish to ask the Tánaiste a specific question.
Comment on this
This seems to be a political decision. The Tánaiste does not seem to be in control of the decision-making process. Will the Government ensure the legislation is reviewed and that if policy changes are required regarding the issues I raised, will it ensure they are brought forward in this Dáil so that we, as legislators, can debate and vote on them? Yes or no?
Comment on this
I am not the slightest bit uncomfortable with the question; I was just not expecting it. It is an important question and the Deputy has every right to have an answer to it. On occasion, though, some Deputies give me prior notice that they are going to raise something and that allows me to check things out.
Comment on this
It was pretty obvious from yesterday's committee meeting.
Comment on this
As the Deputy knows, I was not at the Joint Committee on Health yesterday. I was attending various other meetings and had other obligations. However, I will check up on the terms of reference. I hear what the Deputy is saying. When the legislation was enacted by these Houses, and the then Minister for Health, Deputy Harris, brought the legislation through, it was certainly in my mind at that point that it would be a comprehensive review-----