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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Leaving Certificate clarity

Summary

Deputy Paul Murphy raised the stress facing Leaving Certificate students and said they still lacked clarity on this year's exam arrangements. The Taoiseach said the Government had already dealt with the issue last year and was considering options, while arguing that investment should also focus on early-years and third-level access.

For the third year in a row, the Government has left its homework to the very last minute. We are only weeks away from the leaving certificate mocks, yet students still do not know what they are going to face this year. They might be less than six months away from what will be one of the most stressful exams of their lives but they do not know what the Government is planning for them.

Even in a normal year, more than half of students experience mental or physical health issues as a result of the leaving certificate, but this year's students have also had to deal with two years of disruption to their studies. It is stressful enough already without the added fear of having to miss exams or lose out on a college place due to catching Covid in the middle of them. Students have not even been able to have a traditional education. They cannot be expected to sit a traditional leaving certificate. It is way past time to give clarity to this year's students.

It is not just about that, though. It is time to scrap the Irish version of the squid games, namely, what we call the CAO points rat race. It is not necessary and is based on an artificial scarcity of third level places and dog-eat-dog market competition. It translates social inequality into education inequality, with those who can afford grinds and private education having a major head start. The result is that 99% of young people living in Dublin 6 go on to higher education while only 16% of those from Dublin 10 do so.

There is an alternative to this system. We need to remove the barriers to education, open access to third level to all, and ensure there is a college place for everyone who wants one. The Association of Secondary Teachers Ireland, ASTI, has proposed open access to third level as the only fair and equitable alternative. We agree. What that means is a place in third level for everyone who wants one together with massively expanded apprenticeship schemes. The CAO offers roughly 55,000 places for 80,000 applicants, so it means making another 25,000 places in first year available. That can be done. The staff, for example, are already there. There are already 11,000 staff, primarily women, on short-term or part-time contracts who should immediately be offered full-time contracts. All of this requires an immediate increase in investment, a scrapping of the fees and the provision of living grants. We know that the wealth increase exists in this country to do it.

First, will the Taoiseach please give clarity to this year's students as to what will happen? Second, this time last year the Taoiseach himself said the leaving certificate was too inflexible and that we needed a new system. Does he still believe that and, if he does, will he act now to abolish the points rat race?

Comment on this

I accept it has been a very stressful time for the students who are due to sit the leaving certificate this year, during the Covid-19 pandemic. This Government has been in office for one year and a half, not three years. We had to deal with the leaving certificate last year. Already there are differences between what we did last year and what we are doing now, or could do now. For example, I remember that last year Deputy Murphy was robustly against historic profiling as a basis for standardisation of students' results. A total of 25% of this year's leaving certificate cohort did not do the junior certificate. As for the statisticians and those involved in this, we met the chief inspector yesterday evening. I also met with the Secretary General along with the Minister for Education. If Deputy Murphy wants to go for the accredited grades model, such a model this year would involve the use of historic profiling, and that is problematic.

The Minister is meeting with the advisory group. She has met with all the stakeholders collectively and is meeting with them bilaterally. Let us not pretend to everybody that this is simple. It has to be worked out for the benefit of students, ultimately, not just in the context of the leaving certificate but also in the context of progression to a variety of courses, be they apprenticeship, further education or third level. We have a qualifications framework, and one of the benefits of that is that it puts the learner, not the institution, first. There are opportunities this year and there will always be opportunities within the context of that qualifications framework for students to progress to FETAC, HETAC and right on to postgraduate education. That is the key thing to remember. The decisions the Minister has to arrive at, following consultation with the stakeholders, have to be about the overall best interests of the students, not just today but right through this year and next year. There are challenges this year because 25% of this year's leaving certificate cohort do not have junior certificate results against which benchmarking can be done, and that needs to be put out there. That is just a fact.

In addition, we have one of the highest participation rates in third level education across Europe. It is one of the benefits that has happened in this country over the past 50 years. We have progressively increased second level completion rates, to our credit as a country, and we have very significantly increased third level participation rates. It never gets said in this House but it remains a fact. The idea that you just throw open the doors and say everybody can come in and we will provide high-quality, targeted higher education is illusory - deliberately so - not possible and not doable. It is certainly not doable next June, and we need a dose of reality in respect of those kinds of proposals. It is not fair to students to suggest that type of approach, which is just not possible. I accept, however, the need for clarity, and that needs to happen quickly. The Minister is very much possessed of that reality also and will bring this to a conclusion within the next week.

Comment on this

If there are any students watching, they will have got that the Taoiseach accepts the need for the clarity, but they will not have got any further clarity from him about what decision will be made or when it will be made.

I stress that they need such clarity, and they need it as soon as possible.

I do not accept that the idea there should be open access to third level education is illusory. It is not. We currently have open access to second level education. Is that illusory? No, it is not. Everyone is able to go from first level education to second level education and we are able to provide it. Could we say that absolutely everyone who wants to go to third level education can do so? Could we do away with the huge mental health pressure on second level students of the leaving certificate? Could we make the investment in education? Could we unleash the potential of many of those who do not currently manage to get to third level education and the benefit to our society by doing so? Absolutely, it could be done. Would that benefit our society as a whole? Absolutely. Is it a choice by the Taoiseach's Government to ensure the billionaires who have 60% extra wealth get to increase their wealth year on year, instead of investing in the education of our young people? That is a choice the Taoiseach's Government chooses to make.

Comment on this

The billionaires will always get access to third level education.

Comment on this

The harder task is to make sure we create from the early years on the opportunities for people to progress in early education to primary and second level education so they have the capacity to progress to third level. That is where I would put the extra investment - into early childhood education and childcare, where the full development of the child can be realised much earlier and the potential of the child can be developed much earlier, irrespective of background or circumstances. It is not all about going to college for the sake of it. Looking at the first year results in some courses in some areas of third level, there is a high attrition rate. It is not in anyone's interest for people to enter into a programme with high attrition rates. We need to be sensible about this.

One of the best things that has been happening in the past two years is the dramatic increase in apprenticeships. You do not have to go to third level to do good quality apprenticeships. They are happening. Our role is to ensure there is as wide an availability of options for students as possible. We should increase those options at second level. That was one of my criticisms of second level. The Minister for Education is committed to reforming the leaving certificate, not in some knee-jerk reactionary way as occasioned by Covid but rather in a more sensible and informed way in terms of the need for continuing assessment into the future and so on, and having more varied leaving certificate options for students.

Comment on this