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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Ava Cahill spina bifida surgery delay

Summary

Deputy McDonald raises Ava Cahill’s long wait for corrective surgery and worsening pain. The Taoiseach initially digresses to Noel Treacy’s death, then argues funding is not the problem and that the HSE and CHI should deliver capacity; the exchange ends amid disorder and time pressure.

Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Iarraim ar gach taobh na srianta ama a choinneáil, más é bhur dtoil é.

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Ava Cahill is 11. She is from Tallaght in Dublin and she has spina bifida. She has been waiting for more than a year and a half for corrective surgery. As a result of this wait, Ava lives in considerable and daily pain because her feet have turned in on themselves and her condition is worsening. Her mother says that it is increasingly difficult for Ava to hold her splint in place. She needs this to keep her feet straight. Ava says it is increasingly difficult for her to do everyday things. Her feet keep getting caught in her pants when she tries to dress herself and she does not want anyone to see her feet. Ava, like every child, simply wants to do the things that her friends do. She so badly needs this operation. She said, "It would make my feet straight and I can tell everybody that my feet are normal." Ava's story is not unique. Some 90,000 children are on some form of waiting list. Hundreds of children wait for years for urgent, life-changing orthopaedic surgery for conditions like spina bifida and scoliosis. Many children with spina bifida wait for between one and four years.

Úna Keightley of the Spina Bifida Paediatric Advocacy Group outlined what this means for these children, stating, "They are having open sores and wounds. They are having skin breakdown and infection. There is extreme mental distress to their families and to the children themselves and some of them have actually become inoperable," because they have waited for so long. They are inoperable, having waited for a procedure to which they are entitled, but now it is too late for them. Orthopaedic consultant Dr. Connor Green told the Joint Committee on Health in November that children's potential is being destroyed, physically and psychologically, because of all of this. Due to the wait, children who once walked independently are now in wheelchairs. This is a failure of vulnerable children.

Time is of the essence. The longer these children wait for surgical intervention, the more complex the procedures they eventually need. The wait is ruining their chance and right to a normal life, free of pain. It is not good enough for them to be simply let be. Ní mór don Rialtas gníomh a dhéanamh i gcomhair na bpáistí atá ag fanacht ar obráidí spina bifida agus scoliosis. Ciallaíonn sé sin páistí a bhaint as na liostaí feithimh. Chinnteodh infheistíocht de €5 milliún go bhfaigheadh na páistí seo na hobráidí atá ag teastáil go géar uathu.

The Government could act today to end the agonising wait for these children, to get them off the waiting lists and ensure that they have the life-changing procedures they desperately need. For a relatively modest investment of €5 million, the additional capacity necessary could be delivered to clear these lists. This funding request has been with the Government and Minister for Health for two years. I want to know why this money has not been allocated. It is the best €5 million the Government could spend. It would make a huge difference to children's lives, free them from serious pain, improve their long-term outcomes, and relieve their families of the most immense stress and worry. Children should not have to display their agony, shed their tears on national television, or protest outside the Dáil to get the healthcare they need and which they are fully entitled to.

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I thank the Deputy for raising the issue.

Tá a fhios agam go mbeidh Teachtaí tríd an Teach ag déanamh ómóis inniu do mo chara agus iar-chomhghleacaí Noel Treacy, atá imithe ar shlí na fírinne. I express my deepest sympathies to Mary and to the family on the death of Noel Treacy, who had a long and distinguished public life. He came into Dáil Éireann in 1982. He served as Minister in many portfolios, including at the Department of the Taoiseach and in roles with responsibility for European affairs and education and science. Aire tiomanta agus fíor-scrupallach a bhí ann. He performed a great public service throughout his life. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam. Again, I express my deepest sympathies to Mary and the family.

I saw the piece on RTÉ at the weekend about children waiting for surgery and orthopaedic surgery. Additional funding has been made available to the health service and the HSE to address waiting times and waiting lists, for Crumlin, Temple Street and Cappagh. Children's Health Ireland, CHI, has the capacity to free up space so that complex orthopaedic procedures, including scoliosis and spinal fusion, can be carried out at CHI sites. It is not and should not be an issue of funding. It is unacceptable that children have to wait for so long for urgent surgery. Covid impacted on it. Hospitals received instructions prior to Christmas relating to public health advice to prioritise, for public health reasons, the capacity within hospitals for Covid and issues relating to the Omicron variant and during earlier surges. In 2022, €350 million has been made available to improve waiting times. That includes €150 million for the National Treatment Purchase Fund. Whatever immediate capacity measures can be developed should be developed, because the funding is there to do it.

I listened to Dr. Connor Green on the radio during the week. He stated that it is a priority that they be treated on CHI sites to facilitate follow-up on treatment for the child who has had surgery. I have sought a meeting with Children's Health Ireland about this, as well as with the HSE. Anything that can be done to reduce these waiting times for those who need urgent surgery has to and should be done. I want to get a proper assessment of waiting times for children on the list, how long individual children are waiting, and the reasons for that.

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The Taoiseach should not play the Covid card. As far back as 2014, Temple Street hospital issued a damning report, setting out the failures in service for children with spina bifida. To this day, these children are still failed. I am afraid that it is an issue of funding. A request for €5 million of funding has been with the Minister-----

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From?

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-----for two years for Cappagh hospital.

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The money is there.

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Current funding of €5 million is needed. The Government has known about this for many years. It is a matter of funding. We can deal with this quite simply. I want a commitment from the Taoiseach that the moneys required to give these children the procedures they need will be released as a matter of urgency. Deputy Cullinane and I have met with CHI. By all means, the Taoiseach should meet with whoever he wishes, but he does not need a long round of meetings to understand what has happened here. Would it surprise the Taoiseach to hear that operating theatres are idle in Cappagh? We have the surgeons and the capacity. They need funding. It is €5 million. The Minister, Deputy Donnelly, knows about it. I ask the Taoiseach to make it happen and ensure this funding is released urgently.

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I think the Deputy is asking the wrong question. The €5 million is not an issue in solving this.

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Well then, release it.

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It is not an issue. Deputy McDonald should ask herself the question, why has the Cappagh request not been facilitated?

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Why has it not been facilitated?

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She is asking the Taoiseach that.

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That is the question she should ask herself.

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Why has it not what?

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Why has it not been facilitated? Why have the authorities not facilitated it? The funding has been given to the HSE. We have said to the HSE and to everybody who listens, in terms of hospital capacity-----

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The Taoiseach needs to tell them again-----

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-----to deliver any additional beds or capacity that they can-----

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They have not done it.

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-----in the shortest time possible. There was €600 million given last year for the winter initiative and 800 extra beds were provided last year. Funding is not an excuse any longer. Record sums of money have been given to the HSE and to CHI. They should get on with it and get it done.

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I have told them that.

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Does he want me to go and tell them?

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No, I do not.

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Does he want me to do his job?

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What you are doing-----

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I am happy to. I will do your job any day.

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No, no. Again, I have noticed that this is-----

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

No, Taoiseach, sorry, excuse me.

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On a point of order, if I may. This is a recurring feature of Leaders' Questions.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

No, at this point there is no point of order. I am sorry to interrupt but the time is up.

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What about the barracking?

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There is an open mic with the Deputy. I do not have that facility when other Deputies are speaking and I do not interrupt. This is a regular occurrence and I have to bring it to the Leas-Cheann Comhairle's attention.

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It is disrupting. It is deliberately premeditated recently.

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Well then, do not ask me questions.

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The bottom line and what I am saying to the Deputy is-----

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

No, no-----

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I answer questions, you see.

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I have given the answers.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Please. I am now standing up. We are not going through this. We do it through the Chair. The Taoiseach should not be interrupted and neither should the Deputies. If we do it through the Chair, it might be easier. I will keep a close eye on everything from now on. We are going to move on.

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A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, there is a regular open mic every day now-----

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

No, at this point-----

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This is every day.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

At this point, it is Leaders' Questions. The time is now up for Sinn Féin and yourself.

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I just want to make-----

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

I am moving on to Páirtí an Lucht Oibre anois agus an Teachta Howlin. Is féidir linn teacht ar ais chuig an gclár oibre agus chuig an gcaoi go bhfuil mise nó an Ceann Comhairle ag déileáil le rudaí.

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Caithfear é-----

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Ag an bpointe seo tá mé ag bogadh ar aghaidh.

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