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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Ukraine invasion and Irish response

Summary

Members and the Taoiseach discussed Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Ireland's solidarity with Ukraine, sanctions, diplomatic relations, and whether to expel the Russian ambassador. They also touched on the Bill to support Ukraine, with the Taoiseach saying the Government was positively disposed to it and urging unity.

Last night, we once again witnessed the most harrowing scenes emanating from Ukraine. We have seen the bewildered faces of children and civilian populations fleeing for their safety and lives, spending night after night huddled in air raid shelters in scenes that we never dreamed we would live to witness on our Continent again. Our thoughts are with the people of Ukraine - those who have fled and those who have travelled to Ukraine, including from Ireland. We have heard their harrowing testimonies.

Ní féidir le héinne a bhfuil a meas aige nó aici ar an tsaoirse agus ar an bhféinchinneadh ach breathnú le huafás ar ghníomhartha na Rúise. Seasaimid leis an Úcráin agus tugaimid ár dtacaíocht di arís. The ongoing violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and Ukraine's internationally recognised borders is an affront to the principles that we hold dear as members of the international community. I wish to take this opportunity to commend the work of Irish diplomatic staff and NGO personnel who are on the ground in Ukraine and elsewhere in eastern Europe carrying out very important work assisting those caught up in this nightmarish conflict and distributing humanitarian support and aid. This is vital work. I equally commend everyone engaged in collecting aid in Ireland to assist the humanitarian response.

The Taoiseach has set out the initial contribution of the Irish Government to the humanitarian effort. We all agree that this is a time when we need to stretch ourselves. Will the Taoiseach set out what else the Government proposes to do and how Ireland might step up our efforts and supports for these humanitarian endeavours?

Later this afternoon, I will meet the Ukrainian ambassador to assure her of our continued support and our unwavering commitment to seeing peace in her homeland. I welcome the overwhelming support of the European Parliament yesterday for a resolution condemning Russia's actions. I hope that, in the Dáil this evening, we will equally support the motion before us on a cross-party basis.

Our diplomatic response to Russia's actions must be firm, sure-footed and consistent. Our objective is to end the war and we need to play our full part in that. Our military neutrality, our history of conflict resolution and our seat on the UN Security Council mean that we are strongly placed to advance these efforts for a peaceful pathway forwards. Diplomacy must prevail. Every diplomatic avenue must be used to end the war. All diplomatic leverage must be employed.

It is clear that the actions of Russia in Ukraine are abhorrent. To that end, I wish to ask about the expulsion of the Russian ambassador to Ireland. Thus far, this is an action that the Government has not taken. It has advanced the case of working in concert with our European partners. I happen to believe that now is the time for our Government and the Taoiseach as Head of Government to take the lead on this issue. Has he raised this matter with his fellow EU leaders? Has he put a proposal to them? Does he agree that it is now time to pursue this course of action?

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Is dochreidte an méid atá ag tarlú san Úcráin. Is uafásach an scéal é gan amhras. Is ionsaí mídhleathach gan réasún atá faoi chaibidil ag an Rúis. Is olc an scéal ar fad é agus tá muintir na tíre seo go hiomlán i gcoinne an ionsaithe seo.

We are less than a week into this horrific war against the Ukrainian people and I think President Putin has not achieved the rapid victory over them that he anticipated. More importantly, what is very clear from the resistance of the Ukrainian people is "how dare they value their freedom, their sovereignty, their territorial integrity?" There is not a scintilla of evidence that there is any response from Ukrainian citizens that embraces the Russian invasion as President Putin would have advocated with his troops and so forth.

The courage and resilience of the Ukrainian people is resonating across the globe. I spoke last evening to the Ukrainian Prime Minister, Mr. Denys Shmyhal. He thanked Ireland for our support - our political support, our economic support, our humanitarian support - along with our European Union colleagues. He said that the situation was extremely difficult on the ground in terms of the indiscriminate killing of children and women. It is shocking what is going on with the levelling of cities. It is very clear now that President Putin is moving into a new phase where we are witnessing extreme forms of barbarity in terms of barbaric attacks on cities and civilian targets and in levelling cities. It is quite horrific and an extraordinary trauma is now being visited upon the people of Ukraine, and we have to do everything we possibly can to support them. For example, cluster munitions - this is something that we as a country took a leading role in by creating an international treaty to ban the use of cluster munitions in conflicts - are being used in Ukraine.

It is estimated that approximately 700,000 people have already left Ukraine and the numbers could grow dramatically and very significantly. We should expect those numbers to increase. That will create huge challenges across the European Continent because the repercussions of this war, which is being waged by Putin, are going to be felt across the length and breadth of our Continent. The human trauma will be enormous. I am working on the basis that that trauma will be on a scale that we have never experienced before. We as a country now have to get our heads around that and start preparing the humanitarian responses that will potentially be required to deal with the scale of migration caused by the war itself, but I think that the Irish people will do the right thing. We will not be found wanting in relation to our humanitarian response.

In relation to diplomacy, we are absolutely working with our European Union colleagues in respect of that, and first of all in terms of seeking a peaceful resolution of the issues. To be fair to all the European leaders, particularly the French Presidency, Emmanuel Macron did everything he possibly could to avert this war, and Chancellor Scholz likewise. I met Chancellor Scholz last week in respect of his engagements with President Putin and his endeavours to resolve this.

In terms of diplomatic channels and expulsions, that is the easy bit. It is our view that, across Europe, we work in concert with our European Union colleagues. I have been absolutely passionate about this, in that our unity is our strength. It is easy to say "I will lead ahead of others." I actually think that the most effective route-----

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Tá an t-am caite.

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If I could, it is very important that I make this point genuinely in the face of the war that we are facing on our Continent. The European Union, working together as a unified body with the United States and Canada, packs a powerful punch. We have seen that in terms of the sanctions that have been agreed. We were very clear at the EU Council meeting - we wanted the widest set of sanctions. We want to protect Irish citizens and we want to maintain diplomatic channels to protect Irish citizens in Ukraine, in Russia and elsewhere. It is important that we bear that in mind before taking precipitative action on the expulsions front. That could be done in a day; it is very easy, but the repercussions could be much longer felt by Irish citizens. That is the challenge.

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No one, and certainly no Irish person, will underestimate for a second the absolute determination and courage of the Ukrainian people in defending their homeland, families and lives. No one underestimates for a moment the barbarity of Vladimir Putin's regime and the illegality of this invasion of Ukraine. Neither should any of us doubt the absolute necessity to reassert the primacy of international law, rules-based international relationships and, above all else, the need to restore good order, a full withdrawal of Russian troopers and peace such that this war ends.

It is in that spirit I invite the Taoiseach as Head of the Irish Government to lead again, to lead together with our partners in Europe and to leverage this crucial diplomatic tool. It is essential as shells rain down on Kyiv and people flee for their lives that we demonstrate in every way to the Russian Federation that Ireland means business and that we will not offer any shelter, any excuse or any cover in any form to them. In that spirit, I again invite the Taoiseach to lead our European partners in this endeavour. As regards keeping diplomatic channels open, and that is a legitimate point the Taoiseach made, there are ways in which that can be achieved such as, for example, the appointment of a chargé d'affaires to ensure that our citizens in Russia or elsewhere are catered for. I invite the Taoiseach not to break ranks with Europe but to lead on this matter.

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I do not overestimate the diplomatic leverage the Deputy has just alluded to in terms of the expulsion of any diplomat. We have expelled diplomats in the past. The Deputy did not find favour with that in the past, as she knows. She took the view that it was contrary to military neutrality at the time, in the teeth of Russian aggression. I readily acknowledge that when that happens there is a reciprocal response and one ends up with nobody on the ground, particularly in Moscow, where we have Irish citizens. I do not know how this war is going to unfold or what implications it will have for Irish citizens. I do know that right now in Ukraine we are working extremely hard to help Irish citizens to get out, in particular very vulnerable young babies and so on in hospitals in Ukraine. I am not going to cut off channels that potentially can help us to get Irish citizens who are in difficulty out of Ukraine or anywhere else for that matter.

We have discussed everything with our European colleagues, including diplomatic issues. The Minister, Deputy Coveney, has discussed it at Foreign Ministers level and we discussed it at COREPER level and at Heads of State level. I really believe that the centrality of the importance of us working in unison trumps any domestic political consideration of me being able to say that I am leading ahead of the rest. I have no interest in doing that. In the teeth of the worst war on our Continent the best response is a unified response from the European Union working with the United States. That is the best response. I say that genuinely. It is not about one taking a lead over the other. I do not think that is the right way to go. It might play well domestically in the short-term, but it is not in the best interests of the Irish citizens.

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We are in unprecedented times. I have listened to the Taoiseach and there is validity in what he says but there comes a point when there is indiscriminate killing of civilians, where children are being murdered and when we know we have a dictator who is pursuing a scorched-earth policy. We have always shown leadership in this country. The Russian ambassador is a liar. He lied to the Irish people on multiple occasions. We are in unprecedented territory with a regime that is acting in an absolutely horrendous way. There is no way on this Earth, not just domestically, the Russian ambassador should stay in Ireland. What is the point in having diplomatic channels with somebody who lies? We cannot trust him. If he had said nothing, it would have been better.

President Zelenskyy has thrown down the gauntlet to the world. The Taoiseach is correct that collectively at EU level with our partners we have to do everything we can, but we also have to lead. I am asking the Taoiseach formally to withdraw our ambassador from Russia. I believe we have to do that. I also believe that we have to expel the Russian ambassador. We must also condemn the actions of some of our own elected representatives in the European Parliament. Clare Daly and Mick Wallace do not speak for the Irish people. As far as I am concerned, and the Labour Party is concerned, they have disgraced their mandate. There are a number of others who also have not covered themselves in glory either.

On the humanitarian crisis, the Taoiseach needs to give guidance to the Irish people as to how best they can help. My colleague, Deputy Howlin, has asked the Taoiseach to accelerate the passage of the Magnitsky Bill. The Taoiseach knows what it does regarding the proceeds of crime. It gives the Criminal Assets Bureau the power to seize the assets of oligarchs, officials and anyone involved in human rights abuses. If we did that, it would send a message to the world. We need to park the party politics. It is a Labour Party Bill but we will work with the Government. The Labour Party has two hours of Private Members' time next week. We will give it over if the Government is willing to add to it to take Committee and Report Stages. That would send a message to the world. This legislation is ready to go. I hope we all support it. We can make changes if needed. Will the Taoiseach please work with us to set aside time so that we can implement it?

I have key questions. On behalf of the Irish people and taking everything into account, will the Taoiseach act and expel the Russian ambassador who is a liar? Will he work with us to implement the Magnitsky Bill? I am organising and attending a protest in my home county on Friday. I am giving guidance. Will the Taoiseach please give clear guidance to the Irish people as to how they can help our Ukrainian neighbours?

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I hold very little time for the Russian ambassador and his performance to date in his presentations and what he has articulated on public television-----

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And to this House.

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-----or for the Russian leadership. I have made that very clear in this House. I understand fully people's anger towards Russia, the leadership and the Russian ambassador. My primary concern is with Irish citizens and vulnerable Irish citizens. Earlier, Deputy McDonald made the point about diplomacy and so forth. A chargé d'affaires located here or somewhere else will not do a whole lot. Let us be very honest with people about that. If you cut off diplomatic relations, you cut them off. That is something that at European level, along with all of the other measures that have been taken, has been discussed. Far greater things have been already decided upon. Bigger impact decisions have been taken by the European Union, with Ireland participating, in terms of unprecedented economic sanctions against Russia, denying the Russian Central Bank access to its foreign reserves and excluding the majority of its critical banks from the SWIFT mechanism. There is also the decision in terms of trade and the undermining of the industrial base. These are unprecedented sanctions that have real teeth and real impact on the ground in terms of Russia's economic and industrial capacity into the future. The issue will be to continue with them because they will have impacts. We have got to hold the line in terms of those sanctions for the longer haul. President Putin has crossed the line here in terms of his appalling, barbaric attack on the Ukrainian people.

In my view, the European Union has surprised international opinion generally in terms of its remarkable solidarity among 27 member states, the unity of purpose, the speed with which it has worked with the US, Canada and others to apply unprecedented sanctions against Russia, which are already having an immediate impact in terms of the Russian economy.

Russia's currency has crashed to record lows on foreign exchange markets. Its purchasing power on international markets has been significantly reduced. Inflation in Russia has risen significantly. The Russian Central Bank has hiked interest rates from 9% to 20% to prop up the currency. The Russian stock market has shut.

That is the real meat of what Europe and America are doing. We will to do more, if necessary. I do not accept the basic premise that has been articulated to the effect that Europe should split in different directions. Europe should stay solidly united in its response to this issue. In the discussion I had with the Ukrainian Prime Minister yesterday, he expressed a genuine desire for European Union membership on behalf of the Ukrainian Government and for Ukraine's application to be accelerated, which we support, as I have said.

I did not get to all the Deputy's questions but I might get to them in my next contribution. I have already indicated to Deputy Howlin that I am positively disposed to the Bill. I have to talk to other Ministers about what can be done in that regard.

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The Russian ambassador is a liar. He has lied to the Irish people. His interview on RTÉ with David McCullagh will go down in history, as will the way he performed when he was before the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence. We need to get rid of him. I accept what the Taoiseach is saying. It is a valid argument. However, I do not agree with him. There have been times when we have been of a different view to our European colleagues when it comes to how we have used funding. This is another issue on which I believe we should lead. The Irish people want us to lead. They do not want that man in this country. They do not want his colleagues in the country. They do not want a military attaché in this country. We should also ask Irish citizens to leave Russia.

On behalf of the Labour Party and, I hope, on behalf of everybody, I want to ask the Taoiseach sincerely about the Proceeds of Crime (Gross Human Rights Abuses) Bill, drafted by my colleague, Deputy Howlin. It would probably take two hours or a little more to pass through the House next week. We will give over our Private Members' time over to the passage of the Bill and we will ask members of the Opposition and the Government to support it. We can include any amendments the Government wants to add. This proposed legislation would take the money from the oligarchs. It will facilitate the seizing of assets. It is only expanding on legislation that is already there. I ask the Taoiseach to help us, give time to the issue, work with us and have a conversation. This is not a matter of party politics. We should have a discussion outside the Chamber in order that we can deal with the Bill next week. I beg that of the Taoiseach because it is important.

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There have not been differences between us and the European Union on funding. I make that point clearly. We are part of the European peace facility, which was originally established to deal, in particular, with the African continent and to support military infrastructure in Africa. We have facilitated the application and deployment-----

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Michael McGrath Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform Fianna Fáil

I do not have any role in the negotiation of service level agreements at HSE level. This is a matter for my colleague, the Minister of Health.

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-----of the peace facility with regard to Ukraine. In other words, we have facilitated the provision of weapons and security infrastructure by European Union member states to Ukraine.

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Will the Taoiseach support the Bill?

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This should not be an issue of division.

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It is not an issue of division.

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We should be united in this House. The interjections are not necessary. I want to make an important point.

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Seán Sherlock Deputy Sean Sherlock Labour Party

We are seeking unity on the Bill.

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There has been unity. Ireland has been right up there in supporting all measures to help the Ukrainian people last week and this week.

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The Taoiseach should put the Bill to the Dáil next week.

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We facilitated the passage of the legislation without any opposition on Second Stage.

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We need the Taoiseach's help.

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The Deputy knows we facilitated its passage.

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We need the Taoiseach's help.

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Michael McGrath Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform Fianna Fáil

In recognition of the challenge that households are facing at the moment, in particular those on low incomes, a suite of measures was announced on February 10th to assist citizens with rising costs of living.  This package sought to balance targeting the main underlying problem of higher energy prices with the need to operate with the fiscal framework set out in the Summer Economic Statement.  This package, with the energy credit of €100 per household announced late last year, has a value of over half a billion euro and  will build on the range of supports introduced in Budget 2022 to address costs of living. The package comprises:

- A lump sum payment of €125 to recipients of Fuel Allowance to be paid in March;

- An increase in the Energy Credit payment announced in December from €100 exclusive of VAT to €200 inclusive of VAT;

- Applying the Budget 2022 increase of €10 in the weekly income threshold for the Working Family Payment from April rather than June;

- Further reducing the Drugs Payment Scheme threshold to €80 per month, having been reduced to €100 per month in Budget 2022;

- Reducing the maximum annual School Transport charge to €150 per family at primary level and €500 per family at post-primary level for the next academic year;

- A 20% reduction in PSO Public Transport fares from May until the end of 2022.

The Energy Credit is the main anticipated cost among these measures, with a cost of up to €400 million set out in the Electricity Costs (Domestic Electricity Accounts) Emergency Measures Bill 2022. This legislation provides for the establishment of a scheme to make a payment to domestic electricity accounts, on an exceptional basis due to the global rise in energy prices. Given that this cost is considerable in relation to the original Estimate for the Department of Environment, Climate and Communications, a Supplementary Estimate will be required for Vote 29 to provide for this which I will present to Dáil Éireann for consideration and agreement following approval by Government.

Further Supplementary Estimates may be required later this year to provide for the other measures contained in the package, which fall under the remits of the Departments of Social Protection; Health, Transport and Education,  to the extent that these costs cannot be met within the existing allocations provided.

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This is not-----

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Deputy, please.

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Let us not make the Bill the centrepiece of our response to the Ukrainian people and what they need right now.

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We are not doing that. We just happen to have a Bill here and ready to go.

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Michael McGrath Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform Fianna Fáil

I propose to take Questions Nos. 87 and 113 together.

The Government is aware of the challenge posed to households, particularly those on lower incomes, by the increase in consumer prices in recent months, especially the increase in fuel and other energy prices.  In recognition of this, a suite of measures was announced on February 10th to mitigate the impact of recent inflation on citizens and assist with rising costs of living.

This package will build on the measures announced as part of Budget 2022, which included a range of measures to support citizens with the rising cost of living, including social protection rate increases, increases in tax bands and other affordability measures. Later last year, Government acted quickly to respond to the increase in energy costs by committing to an energy credit of €100 for all domestic account holders. With this earlier energy credit commitment, the package of measures announced post-Budget 2022 has a value of some half a billion euro. The package comprises:

A lump sum payment of €125 to recipients of Fuel Allowance to be paid in March;

- An increase in the Energy Credit payment announced in December from €100 exclusive of VAT to €200 inclusive of VAT;

- Applying the Budget 2022 increase of €10 in the weekly income threshold for the Working Family Payment from April rather than June;

- Further reducing the Drugs Payment Scheme threshold to €80 per month, having been reduced to €100 per month in Budget 2022;

- Reducing the maximum annual School Transport charge to €150 per family at primary level and €500 per family at post-primary level for the next academic year;

- A 20% reduction in PSO Public Transport fares from May until the end of 2022.

While this will not combat the causes of the inflation we are currently seeing, which is mainly due to external factors such as higher oil prices and pandemic-induced supply chain bottlenecks in key regions along with the rapid rebound in the domestic economy, it will provide timely support to all households who may be experiencing difficulties as a result of rising prices. The package sought to balance targeting the main underlying problem of higher energy prices with the need to operate with the fiscal framework set out in the Summer Economic Statement and so has been designed to specifically target energy costs, while using the social welfare system to target additional support to those who are in receipt of the fuel allowance.

A range of budgetary reforms have been put in place in recent years, to drive spending efficiency and effectiveness and the Programme for Government commits to continuing reform and improvement of the budgetary process. This work includes the ‘whole-of-year’ budgetary framework, the Spending Review process, Performance Budgeting and Equality Budgeting and the development of the Wellbeing Framework for Ireland.

Given the significant level of resources to be provided under the medium term expenditure strategy, an ongoing and enhanced focus on value for money is required, looking at the quality of expenditure and what it delivers for citizens. It is in this context that all expenditure decisions will be taken, as part of the Budget 2023 process, to examine any further measures that may be required to address cost of living issues.

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We are talking about money in Ireland.

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I ask Deputies to acknowledge those sanctions. We have done that and we are willing to do more. We are willing to engage with the Deputy in respect of the Bill.

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There is €34 billion of Russian money in the International Financial Services Centre.

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I dealt with that issue transparently yesterday. Ireland has not been found wanting in any area in respect of our response to the crisis in Ukraine. We are getting legitimate calls from Deputies and Senators from across the Houses about helping Irish citizens in Ukraine and elsewhere. We are getting legitimate calls to which we are responding.

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The Russian ambassador is not going to help.

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We are working with people.

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How can the Taoiseach trust the ambassador?

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On a better and different day, the Deputies opposite would agree with me. I regret to some extent the attempts to divide the House on this issue.

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That is rubbish.

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It is wrong.

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That is absolute rubbish.

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That is what is going on.

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All the Taoiseach has to do is to facilitate the passage of the Bill. That is all we are asking.

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I have said to Deputy Howlin on a number of occasions that the Government is positively disposed towards the Bill.

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The proof will be in the pudding next week.

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We are positively disposed to the Bill.

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We will see the proof next week.

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That is very unfair.

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It is not unfair.

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Please, Deputies. We are way over time. I appreciate the vital importance of the issue under discussion but we do have a schedule to try to adhere to. We are already scheduled to be here until 11.25 p.m. We are already adding to that time.

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