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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Health service and public sector pay

Summary

Deputy Tóibín cites HIQA findings on overcrowding in University Hospital Limerick and argues the health service is in crisis, then criticises a low public sector pay offer. The Minister defends health workers and recent investment, says the Deputy is asking government to renege on an agreement, and rejects Aontú's proposal to link pay to productivity.

In its first ever inspection of hospital overcrowding, the Health Information and Quality Authority, HIQA, found that there was a risk of a grossly overcrowded emergency department in University Hospital Limerick. It found that one of the patients was waiting on a trolley for five days and that people were travelling from the mid-west to Dublin to access accident and emergency departments. Emergency departments have record levels of waiting times, with most people waiting for roughly 13 hours. Older people are waiting 19 hours for admission into accident and emergency departments. Patients in Tallaght University Hospital are waiting 24 and a half hours for admission and there were 8,600 people on trolleys in May. The Mater Misericordiae University Hospital and the Midland Regional Hospital, Mullingar have told patients not to come near them because they are under such pressure with overcrowding.

According to the Irish Association of Emergency Medicine, up to 350 people are dying annually due to overcrowding in this State.

According to a response I received from the Minister for Health to a parliamentary question, there has been a jump from 79,000 to 105,000 adverse incidents taking place in hospitals across the country. That is a jump of 32% of people who have suffered ill health as a result of mistakes happening in hospitals. Extreme incidents have risen from 373 cases to 579 and include death and incapacity. These are happening because of the massive fact that overcrowding is gripping our hospitals. Why? It is because of the lack of capacity. We have seen the number of hospital beds fall from 20,000 to 14,000 and the number of ICU beds is 200 fewer than even the HSE states there should be.

If one tries to register for a GP in counties like Meath at the moment, one cannot get such a registration for love nor money. If one has a GP, it will take a fortnight to get access to an appointment. So far this year, 400 doctors have emigrated to Australia. The health service is a disaster and a car crash and it is happening under the Minister's watch.

What is the response of the HSE? It states it wants to close Navan accident and emergency and five ICU beds that go with it, and send the 25,000 patients to a queue in nearby hospitals to wait for hours for life and death treatment. One does not have to be Einstein to work out the response to overcrowding is more capacity, not less.

The man in charge of the HSE, Paul Reid, is paid €411,000 per year. The number of people in the HSE paid more than €410,000 has doubled in a short period of time. Now we hear the Government will give a 10% to 15% pay increase to public servants earning this amount of money. Is there no level of productivity related to the amount people get paid? Is there no link between the outcomes of people's work and the amount they get paid in the HSE? How can the Government proceed with pay increases to these civil servants at a time when we have such a crisis in the health service?

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I thank the Deputy. He does our health workers and those who work in the HSE a great disservice by saying the health service is a disaster.

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They would agree.

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The Deputy will understand what the health service has been through over the past two years and the incredible commitment of our professionals in accident and emergency departments, right through our wards and back room and management teams. They have had two exceptional years trying to keep our people safe and manage this country and the health response through Covid. The Deputy's comments calling the health service a disaster are reprehensible and he should withdraw them. The commitment that has been shown by our health professionals has been incredible.

That said, there are serious challenges with regard to waiting lists. Part of that is due to the restrictions that were in place on access to our hospitals during the two years of Covid. The Deputy neglected to say that. Let us be real and realistic. The HSE has a budget this year of €22 billion. Waiting times and waiting lists like we see are not acceptable. That is why the Minister, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, has brought in specific plans and sent an expert team into University Hospital Limerick, which the Deputy referenced. Each hospital will bring forward plans supported by the HSE on reducing waiting lists and managing emergency departments, EDs. We must recognise where our health service has come from and the incredible work the health service professionals on the front line, including GPs, have done over the past two years to get us through the pandemic. Do we have challenges there? Of course we do. There is no question whatsoever but there are challenges there. We are determined as a Government, and the Minister, Deputy Donnelly, supported by his colleagues, is determined, to make progress in this space. Resources are not an issue.

To answer the Deputy's question on the FEMPI legislation, this was an agreement made by Government and supported by most parties in the Dáil to unwind FEMPI. The percentages the Deputy gave are incorrect. There are 1.7% to 10% increases for the about 1% of the public service who are left, most of whom are hospital consultants. The Deputy has been in here before bemoaning the loss of hospital consultants and professionals who are going abroad. Is he now saying we should rip up an agreement and not pay that 1% of workers, many of whom are the healthcare workers he mentioned today, while we are in the process of negotiating a new public sector pay deal? Is he for real? Does he think that is sustainable? The Government will stand by the agreements we make. We will see this through and are doing the right thing on behalf of our people.

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Make no mistake, Minister, this disaster is an indictment of the Government and not a reflection on the health professionals who carry the weight and burden of Government mismanagement on their shoulders. That is the truth and do not try to deflect it.

The Government entered into pay talks with low- and middle-income earners in the public service and the Minister, Deputy Michael McGrath, is offering them a 2.5% increase in salary. He is telling low-income individuals they will have a pay increase, potentially, of a quarter of the current rate of inflation in this State, while those earning more than €150,000 will get a pay increase over the rate of inflation.

Let the Minister not tell me he cannot change the law. That is what governments do. They have the right to change the law. Top civil servants like Robert Watt and Paul Reid earn the largesse of this Government. There is never a problem with chasing inflation or with the national debt when it comes to them. There is generosity from the Government's pockets, but for people on salaries of €30,000 or €40,000 the Government shuts down the idea of proper pay increases to meet the rate of inflation. If the Government continues, Paul Reid will get a pay increase of potentially €50,000, on top of €411,000. How is that fair when the health service is in the crisis it is in?

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It is unfortunate the Deputy has taken this approach but he is entitled to do so. Let us be honest with people about the investment in the health service. We have record beds and resources for diagnostics-----

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There were 20,000 beds. There are 14,000 now.

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-----and record levels of staff. The Deputy is asking the Government to renege on an agreement that is in place. I have great regard for our public and Civil Service. We have fantastic people working across the sector and, particularly over the past two years, those who wanted to see it have seen the value of that and of ensuring we resource our public service.

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It is 2.5% for low incomes.

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The Deputy and Aontú are saying they would rip up an agreement that has been supported by the Dáil previously, by most parties. We are looking at a pay increase of between 1.7% and 10%. Is the Deputy for real in saying he would rip that up if he was in government and bring in legislation to renege on an agreement while we are in the middle of trying to negotiate a new public sector pay deal? Hopefully, Aontú will never get into government.

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We would link pay to productivity for senior public servants.

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