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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Energy security and blackouts

Summary

Deputy Murphy warned that EirGrid could not guarantee against blackouts and criticised regulators for being behind the curve, citing the Regional Group's energy motion and Derrybrien. The Tánaiste defended the regulatory framework, said keeping Derrybrien open was not a solution when wind is absent, and pointed to biomass and battery storage as part of the response.

Barring any unexpected accidents, the Tánaiste is expected to become Taoiseach again in a few months. In the meantime, he retains responsibility for policy and legislative matters relating to enterprise, trade and employment.

The welfare of businesses, industry and, most of all, consumers falls within his remit. Many Members have commented on the stark warnings from EirGrid indicating that the gap between electricity demand and supply will likely get worse. The CEO told RTÉ this morning that he cannot guarantee that there will not be blackouts. This is a shocking development, which will concern thousands of homeowners and businesses, as well as damage our reputation abroad. It is shocking that yet again we have the spectacle of regulatory State agencies arriving breathless and somewhat puzzled at the scene of the latest threatened blight to hit the beleaguered public.

Does the Tánaiste agree that now is the time for him and his Government colleagues to carry out an urgent review of the effectiveness of the various regulatory State agencies that are well paid to oversee key sectors or activities? They should perform or be abolished. We have EirGrid, the transmission system operator, and the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, which, when not squabbling with each other, have allowed a situation to develop where we have imminent threats of blackouts and rapidly increasing energy costs. The Competition and Consumer Protection Commission seems to be a spectator when it comes to price rises hitting consumers and seems unable to tackle price gouging. The commission is also pretty useless when it comes to tackling the scourge of insurance costs. We have an aviation regulator that failed to spot the unfolding crisis in Dublin Airport this year. We have a Central Bank which, despite its role in the collapse of the banking system, subsequently failed to detect the tracker mortgage scandal, which was brought to its attention by a committee of this House. The Planning Regulator seemed blind to what is happening in An Bord Pleanála until an online site published allegations. The incompetence of the Road Safety Authority is legendary and it is ironic that it requires HGV drivers to acquire a certificate of professional competence when it is the drivers who should set a course of competence for the RSA. The Standards in Public Office Commission, SIPO, while competent in its duty, is powerless to stop unethical behaviour by senior officials. The Government is even appointing impugned officials to State boards following their censure by SIPO. We also have a complete failure on the part of multiple State agencies to enforce existing legislation prohibiting the curse of online gambling and its infliction of hardship on thousands of families nationally. At what stage will the Government demand these entities do their job and fulfil their functions? The public is sick and tired of useless regulatory bodies, which arrive breathless at the scene of the latest outrage, looking for more powers and resources.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Tánaiste Fine Gael

There is a lot in that question and it is hard to answer comprehensively in the time allowed. I do not think the Deputy's characterisation of our regulatory structures is entirely fair. They are not perfect but many of them have served us very well in recent years. That is not to say there have not been flaws and failings. It is important to bear in mind that some of these regulators are accountable directly to the Oireachtas and not to the Government. That is the way they have been established and they are held to account through the Oireachtas committee structure.

On energy, the review is under way. Some months ago, Mr. Dermot McCarthy, the former Secretary General to the Government, was appointed to review the regulatory system for energy and to identify why things went wrong and what we can do to ensure they do not go wrong in the future.

I restate what the CEO of EirGrid said this morning. He said it was important to note there is no risk of a system-wide blackout. Rather, there may be periods where total supply does not meet demand. While nobody can rule out the possibility of blackouts over the winter, I want to say to families, homeowners, small businesses and farms that the chances of a prolonged blackout affecting them are very low. Many people are engaging in worrying people about this. We cannot rule it out but the risk of that kind of blackout is very low. If we enter a red-alert scenario, large energy users will come offline first, such as data centres. They have their own generation capacity. It takes quite a lot of events to come together for us to be in a position where there would have to be power cut to homes, firms or businesses. It is important to reassure people of that. It did not happen last winter. Nobody can say it will not happen this winter but it is unlikely.

We do not know everything about this matter but one thing we all know is that fundamentally the problem is inadequate supply and not enough generators generating electricity. We have a rapidly growing population and economy, and because of the need to take climate action, we are moving a lot of things to electricity. There are more electric vehicles, heat pumps, etc. All of those things contribute to rising electricity demand. That demand will rise further. The solution is much more generation capacity. That was licensed and contracted but the generators did not deliver. Now we are in a catch-up phase but we have a plan to catch up and put that generation capacity in place - both renewables and gas, because both are necessary - and to get ahead of this in the coming years.

Comment on this

I would have thought the idea of all the regulators I mentioned was that we would not be catching up because they would outline the problems and foresee the issues. Instead, every body I mentioned states that they have been brought to their attention. That is the reality of where we are. We are constantly behind the curve.

My group, the Regional Group, tabled a motion on energy, if the Government is concerned about blackouts. We asked that it would not deconstruct Derrybrien and that we pay the fine to the EU and continue with the energy supply to 40,000 homes that the 70 wind turbines would provide. We suggested reigniting Lanesborough and Shannonbridge power stations, none of which was taken on board. I do not understand why the regulator was on the radio this morning saying we are in danger of blackouts while the Tánaiste says it is unlikely and that we should not frighten people. Who is frightening the people? The inaction is frightening the people.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Tánaiste Fine Gael

I appreciate that the Regional Group is putting forward solutions in this regard and they need to be considered. One of the reasons keeping Derrybrien going does not necessarily make sense is that when the energy system is short of generating capacity is when the wind is not blowing. That is at the heart of many of the problems we have. We have a lot of renewable energy. The risk of a blackout or brownout occurs only when the wind is not blowing. That is why keeping Derrybrien online is not particularly useful in terms of the energy crunch we face. Lanesborough and Shannonbridge created a lot of employment in the midlands for a long time but peat, by its nature, did not produce an awful lot of energy.

Comment on this

Use biomass.

Comment on this

There are ten years left in them.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Tánaiste Fine Gael

What we plan to do with some of the plants in the midlands is that one will go to biomass and the others will be used for battery storage, so we can use the wind power and renewables, which are not dispatchable but can be stored. That might make more sense in terms of energy security and for the environment.

Comment on this