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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Mortgage interest relief and bank profits

Summary

Deputy Doherty raises ECB rate rises, tracker mortgage costs and banks' excess profits, arguing for mortgage interest relief and stronger action on banks. The Tánaiste says the ECB is independent, rejects promises he cannot make, and accuses Sinn Féin of populist economics; the exchange becomes increasingly partisan before the Chair reminds Deputies of the time limit.

Táthar ag súil ar maidin go n-ardóidh an Banc Ceannais Eorpach a ráta úis arís faoi 0.75 pointe céatadáin eile. Sin méadú de dhá phointe céatadáin ó mhí Iúil, agus beidh tionchar láithreach ag an ardú seo ar theaghlaigh a bhfuil morgáiste rianúcháin acu, le go leor ag feiceáil a gcuid aisíocaíochta ag ardú le €2,000 i gcomparáid le tús na bliana. Tá sé in am anois dearcadh arís ar fhaoiseamh ús morgáiste.

The Tánaiste will know that workers and families are struggling and that prices are rising and spilling over into every part of household budgets. The European Central Bank is expected today to raise interest rates again by another three quarters of a percentage point. That is a two percentage point increase since July of this year and it will have an immediate impact on households on tracker mortgages. Such a household with an outstanding balance of €200,000 would see its annual payment increase by more than €2,000 compared with the start of this year. For other mortgage holders, the decision rests with their banks as to whether they will pass these interest rate hikes on to their customers or absorb them.

Our position in Sinn Féin is clear. Banks should absorb these interest rate hikes in the interests of their customers. The banks are in a good position to do so and to do the right thing. In the first half of this year, Bank of Ireland and AIB had combined profits of €950 million. They have increased their market share since and have continued dividend payments to shareholders this year and, as the Central Bank made clear in May of this year, "Profitability in the banking sector has recovered and is set to be bolstered" as a result of rising interest rates. The Central Bank went further, noting that Irish banks were positioned to increase their profits more than other European banks as a result of rising interest rates. According to the banks' own estimates, these interest rate hikes could bolster their interest income by more than €1 billion each year.

Let us be clear: interest rate hikes announced by the ECB provide a bonanza for Irish banks. The financial outlook and position of our banks is strong, while for households it is not. Those on variable rates are at the mercy of these banks and the decisions they will make in the coming weeks and months. Their decisions could increase the mortgage repayments of households by thousands of euro. These households are already struggling to make ends meet. Banks need to do the right thing. They need to not pass on these interest rate hikes and they need to make that clear to their customers. Families have spent the past year looking at their household budgets. They are planning how best they can manage to get through the winter and into the coming year. However, no household could have anticipated that the cost of their mortgage would increase by this much and so quickly.

Will the Tánaiste join me in calling on the banks to do the right thing and not to pass these interest rate hikes on to households, which are already struggling under immense financial pressures? The Tánaiste will know that those on tracker mortgages will automatically see these rate hikes passed on to them, just as the previous two rate hikes have been passed on to them since July. These households cannot be expected to shoulder an additional burden of more than €2,000 per year in mortgage costs without the State and without the Government exploring every possible avenue to support them. Will the Tánaiste therefore commit to examining options to introduce targeted, tailored and time-bound mortgage interest relief to those who are most heavily impacted as a result of interest rate hikes announced by the ECB?

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Tánaiste Fine Gael

I am conscious of the fact we have not had any announcement yet from the ECB on interest rates, but it is anticipated, or widely reported at least, that the ECB will raise interest rates by 0.75 of a percentage point today. I have to emphasise that, as we in this House all know, the European Central Bank is independent in its functions, does not take directions from this Government or any government and will make its decisions based on what it believes is the right thing to do for the economy in the round. I know that any increase in interest rates for mortgage holders will be very unwelcome. People who have tracker mortgages, in particular, will receive a third letter this year telling them their monthly repayments are going up. That is very much unwelcome for those of us who hold tracker mortgages. The ECB's rationale, however, as the Deputy will understand, will be that interest rates need to rise now to bring prices under control and to bring inflation down. That will be to the benefit of everyone. Ultimately, it is the remit of the European Central Bank to ensure we have price stability and that inflation is no higher than 2% per year. One of its tools is to increase interest rates; the other is quantitative tightening. It would appear the ECB intends to employ both those.

It is worth pointing out that we have had a prolonged period of very low interest rates for a long time now and that is now ending. We are likely to see interest rates closer to their long-term average in future. For example, as recently as 2014, not all that long ago, the average fixed interest rate for new lending was 4.1%; it is now 2.5%. That gives just an example of how low interest rates have gone. This prolonged period of low interest rates is not going to continue. We will see much more normal interest rates into the future. I know that will not be welcome for many people, but not telling people the truth should not be welcome either. It is important we tell people the truth about these things.

Any decision on variable rates, of course, is a commercial decision for the bank involved. I agree with the Deputy that banks should not use rising interest rates as an opportunity to make excessive profits, but they do need to take other factors into play as well. For example, we want banks to offer new mortgages to first-time buyers. We want them to offer those new mortgages at competitive rates. We want banks to offer long-term rates. Of course, many older people, who perhaps have some small savings, will be looking for an increase in their deposit rate. The banks have to take all of that into account. We cannot focus on just one group. That would not be fair. I agree with Deputy Doherty, however, that banks should not use this as an opportunity to make excessive profits.

Comment on this

All those excessive profits the banks are making go untaxed under the Tánaiste's Government. The banks have told us themselves that, despite making nearly €1 billion in the first six months of this year, this will boost their interest income by another €1 billion. The Central Bank has told us that, of all European banks, Irish banks will benefit most from the hikes. It is not just about making excess profits. We are now in an almighty cost-of-living crisis and the banks should do the right thing. Some banks have not passed on the first two interest rate hikes. They need to do likewise with the third. I make that call on behalf of Sinn Féin to the banks today.

As the Tánaiste has recognised, there is an automatic increase for tracker mortgage customers. There has been mortgage interest relief in the past. It has been targeted. It was tailored and time-bound. Does the Tánaiste not believe it is now time to introduce a similar measure to deal with this shock? It is a shock to many tracker mortgage customers, who will see interest rate payments increase by €2,000 per year. As the Tánaiste will know, the European Central Bank has done three interest rate hikes. It has signalled that it could do as much as five, and there is expectation that there will be another early in the new year. Will the Tánaiste therefore consider options to look at mortgage interest relief in a tailored, time-bound fashion that is targeted at those who are most under pressure as a result of these moves?

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Tánaiste Fine Gael

I would love to bring back mortgage interest relief for people who have tracker mortgages - I would benefit from it myself, by the way, as would a huge number of my constituents in Dublin 15, but I cannot make those kinds of promises. We had mortgage interest relief in the past when interest rates were much higher than they are now. We now have a prolonged period of very low interest rates coming to an end and we are seeing interest rates go back to something that would have been considered much more normal five, ten or 15 years ago.

It seems to me that Deputy Doherty has learnt nothing from what has happened across the water. He spent the past few months calling for a mini-budget. After that he called for a limitless energy price cap. We see how that has turned out in the United Kingdom.

Comment on this

That is not true.

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Deputies

It is true.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Tánaiste Fine Gael

Now Sinn Féin has another set of populist promises to make to take advantage of people who have tracker mortgages. When is Deputy Doherty going to learn from what has happened across the water?

Comment on this

Fine Gael and the Tories are soulmates.

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It is Fine Gael's sister party that wrecked the economy across the water because it introduced tax cuts for the rich.

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Leo Varadkar The Tánaiste Fine Gael

Quite the contrary, what the UK has done and is now reversing is exactly what Sinn Féin proposed.

Comment on this

Tax cuts for the rich.

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Leo Varadkar The Tánaiste Fine Gael

It is another populist promise it wants to con people with. I used to think it would take two years for Sinn Féin to wreck our economy. I now think only one budget by Kwasi Doherty would do all damage.

Comment on this

The Government called for the ECB to increase interest rates earlier this year and now they are suffering as a result of that.

Comment on this
Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

The cogency of the argument is not strengthened by ignoring the Chairperson. There is a time limit within which Deputies can make their arguments.

Comment on this