SME costs and fuel taxation
Deputy O'Donoghue first asks about supports for SMEs facing rising employment costs, and then presses the Tánaiste on high fuel taxation for people without public transport. The Tánaiste points to TBESS, VAT reductions and excise cuts, saying the remaining price rises are driven by global factors and Ukraine rather than government tax policy.
I am not sure whether the Tánaiste is aware of the crisis facing SMEs. Employers in small businesses are bombarded regarding the way they can reward employees. I am talking about hair salons, barbers, boutiques, pubs, chains of supermarkets, coffee shops and restaurants around the country. I am delighted to see conditions are improving for employees. Unfortunately, this may not be affordable. While it may be affordable for larger companies, it is a two-tier system when it comes to SMEs. Where are the supports for SMEs to ensure the employment benefits are given to people in SMEs? There has been legislation on things like sick pay and the increase in the minimum wage, which I welcome. Getting staff back to work is increasingly difficult.
Fuel costs are having a major impact on SMEs. The Minister for Finance said yesterday that as the price of fuel goes up, VAT goes up. When the citizens referred to are not in a position to spend money in the shops or local economy, we collect less VAT. These are the SMEs I am talking about. The Minister for Finance said yesterday that we collect more tax on fuel because we are not collecting the VAT in the shops and in the local economy.
This tells us that SMEs are in huge trouble. These are the rural employers. They are the small shops, such as the local butchers and hair salons. I am talking about these people and not about multinationals. I am talking about the local shops in our area.
If the Tánaiste were to go around my county of Limerick, he would find no local shops in Crecora, Fedamore or Ardagh. I refer to the number of SME businesses that have closed in Limerick in the past week alone because they have not got the support to reward their employees, which they want to do. Overhead costs are killing these businesses. I repeat these are not multinational corporations. These are the bread-and-butter people providing employment in the local communities I represent. I am asking the Government, therefore, to intervene. I ask it to consider a two-tier system so we will be able to help the SMEs, these small employers who help small and local communities to survive. The post offices have a big impact in this regard as well and an attempt is being made to close these around the country as well. I ask the Tánaiste to intervene.
Comment on this
I thank the Deputy for his question. The main way in which we can intervene to help small businesses is through the temporary business energy support scheme, TBESS. This legislation is now going through the House. It will give businesses up to €10,000 monthly to help them with their energy bills. We are keen to get this measure legislated for as soon as possible, to get the scheme up and running and to backdate it to September 2022. This will help many businesses to a large extent with their energy costs. As is the case with households, though, there is no way we can cover the entire increase. We can, however, make a big difference and this is the main way we are going to help small businesses in the months ahead. I note and welcome the Deputy's support for the increase in the national minimum wage. I wish to emphasise this in the House.
One thing I should say, and we should not forget this, is that more people - 2.5 million - are now at work in Ireland than ever before. This has come against the backdrop where we have seen improvements in pay, terms and conditions and new workers' rights pretty much every year for the past ten, 15 or 20 years. It does not add up therefore that anyone thinks there is some kind of correlation between low pay and poor rights. Ireland is a classic example of where we have improved pay, terms and conditions and workers' rights every year for ten or 15 years now, and yet we have seen levels of employment rise. I hope it will continue to rise.
Regarding what we have done on fuel costs, which the Deputy mentioned, when the price of fuel goes up, the VAT take also goes up. This is not the case with excise duty. We have cut the rate of excise duty, and we have taken 20 cent off a litre of petrol and 15 cent off a litre of diesel precisely for this reason. We have also cut VAT levied on electricity and gas prices. The rate has been cut to 9%, which is the lowest rate of VAT charged on electricity and gas prices since taxes began, or certainly since VAT levies began. The Deputy did not mention this in his contribution.
I hear the Deputy's suggestion regarding some sort of two-tier system to help SMEs. I do not know what this means, however, and I would be interested if the Deputy could flesh out some proposals. First, how would he define an SME? Would it be based on the number of employees, on turnover or on profits? These are all very different things, as the Deputy will understand. A business can have a small number of employees but a large turnover. Similarly, a business could have many employees but no profits. How would it be decided, then, which businesses would be in which tier? Second, what would the differences be? Would small businesses be allowed to pay their staff less? Would there be a lower minimum wage? If the Deputy wishes to flesh out proposals, I would be interested to see them.
Comment on this
What I am discussing with the Tánaiste is an unfair tax on people who do not have access to public transport. Watch this now. There is tax in regard to VAT and the Tánaiste said the VAT receipts go up. The Government is taking 50% in tax on petrol and 44% in tax on diesel, when everything is included together. This applies to everyone who has to use a car, a van, a tractor, a truck or a motorbike to do whatever they have to do in an area where there is no public transport. This includes getting children to school in areas where the Government is unable to provide buses, such as in Dromcolliher. I mentioned during the week that 50 students were waiting on a bus and now we have 30 cars driving to Dromcolliher. This is an unfair tax on people carrying their children to school.
I am talking about SMEs in rural Ireland, which the Government seems to have given up on once it goes beyond the Red Cow roundabout. This is what I am talking about. I am talking about where I live in Limerick. I make no apologies for mentioning Limerick and the rural areas I represent. This is what I am here to do. I am here to ensure our people in our area are represented. An unfair tax from the Government, which is taking 50% on petrol and 44% on diesel, means it is only looking after people who have access to public transport. All the people in my area have to go to work and they are being taxed before they leave their houses every week.
Comment on this
I appreciate that fuel prices are very high. Seeing the price of diesel going up again is alarming for many people. I absolutely get this. I understand and appreciate it, and this is why the Government has intervened. We have reduced excise duties on petrol and diesel by 20 cent per litre and 15 cent per litre, respectively. It is now down as low as it can go under European rules on diesel duty. We could, potentially, go down a little bit more on the price of petrol-----
Comment on this
The Tánaiste is saying the Government could bring down the rate on petrol.
Comment on this
It is legally possible under European law to reduce the excise duty charged on petrol a bit more, but not on diesel. There is, therefore, no point in calling for this. As the Deputy knows, we have reduced the VAT rate charged on electricity and gas costs to 9%, which is the lowest ever. Businesses can, of course, claim back their VAT expenses. We cannot, however, be divorced from the reality of what is going on here. Energy prices are not being driven up by the Government. They are being driven up by what is happening in the rest of the world-----