The fiasco surrounding the delivery of the national children’s hospital continues. It is a saga that has rumbled on for two decades. We have already seen the cost for the hospital balloon and almost double. Despite all this investment, the children of Ireland still do not have their hospital. It was supposed to be open by 2014. Then it was August 2022. Now we are told it might open in mid-2024. Ten years after it was supposed to open, we still wait with real uncertainty, even around the 2024 date.

If this debacle was not bad enough, this morning we woke to more worrying news. It is reported that the Department of Health seems to believe that there will be additional funding required from the Government and that it is bracing itself for a sharp increase in costs that will push the final bill beyond €2 billion.

Remember that there are some 900 claims from the developers to the tune of nearly €500 million which have not yet been resolved. This whole saga has been an exercise in kicking the can down the road and God only knows where all of this will end up.

Years after planning was granted, nearly three decades since the idea the children’s hospital was first proposed, and after €1.1 billion has already been spent, the Government still does not know what the final cost will be, or when the hospital will be completed.

Let me be very clear on this. Ireland needs its children’s hospital. It is a vital part of our national health infrastructure but it has not yet been delivered. We have witnessed an ongoing saga of bungles, incompetence and broken promises.

Meanwhile, we have 100,000 children on hospital waiting lists. This includes children waiting for ear, nose and throat, ENT, treatment, dermatology care, and those children waiting in agony for scoliosis surgery. We know that delivery of the national children’s hospital would provide the capacity needed to get these kids off waiting lists and into theatres for their life-changing operations. Still, they wait and wait, the costs of the children’s hospital go up and up, and the delay goes on and on. If anything is emblematic of this Government's inability to forward-plan and deliver modern infrastructure on budget and on time, then surely the national children’s hospital is it.

There has rightly been much focus on the Government's inability to build houses, but clearly, it is not very good at building hospitals either. The question people ask is this: who sets out to build anything, no less a national hospital, with no idea of how much it will cost and no idea when it will be finished.

Leanann scannal ospidéal náisiúnta na leanaí ar aghaidh agus ar aghaidh. Caithfidh muid an costas deiridh a fháil. Cathain a bheidh an t-ospidéal críochnaithe agus cathain a bheidh sé oscailte?

The Government and the Minister for Health need to get their acts together. We need clarity and answers. When will the Taoiseach get to grips with this debacle? What will the final cost of the national children’s hospital be and when will it be finished and operational?

Ar dtús báire, ní aontaím leis an Teachta. Is í an aidhm atá ag an Rialtas seo ná ospidéal den chéad scoth a chur ar fáil ionas go mbeidh seirbhísí den scoth ar fáil do leanaí na tíre, ní hé amháin sa lá atá inniu ann ach sna blianta atá le teacht.

I first make the point that the children’s hospital is a project that has been ongoing for some considerable length of time-----

If the children can get in there.

-----well in advance of the formation of this Government and I note that the Deputy’s comment is very much focused on this Government. For future generations of children and the children of today it is one of the most important projects that is being managed by the National Paediatric Hospital Development Board, NPHDB, and that the Government is clearly overseeing. I am in no doubt as to the benefits to be derived for the children of Ireland from building a first class, world-class hospital which we need. That is the first point I make and it is the objective of the Government to complete this hospital.

That said, this is a commercial contract and, yes, the developer has submitted a whole range of claims. Deputy McDonald has mentioned 500. Many of those claims made earlier on were not substantiated, there is arbitration and a process has been put in place. The developer or contractor may very well submit a claim, and they are entitled to do so, but equally the NPHDB, the hospital development board, is entitled to defend those claims which it considers inappropriate and which is in line with the provisions of public works contracts.

The Deputy has asked me to give an estimate of the ultimate cost. That would be a mistake because if one is interested in costs, a person does not announce to the contractor the level to which one wants to go to. That is the wrong approach to take now. The approach we have taken, and I am very clear on this in government, is that we proceed to have the hospital completed and have a parallel process where if claims are made in respect of costs, they are defended by the hospital development board. In many ways I take the view that I will not go into any ballpark figures and have no intention of doing so because to do that would only disadvantage the taxpayer-----

A blank cheque.

-----and disadvantage the State. I am very clear that we need to complete this hospital and to create a first-class facility. We also acknowledge the work done in Tallaght and the paediatric outpatient and emergency centre that was opened there as part of this project. By November 2021 it would address up to 17,000 outpatient and 25,000 emergency attendances alone. The facility at Connolly Hospital in 2021 saw over 11,000 urgent care attendances and 13,000 outpatients. Within one year of the opening of the Connolly facility, there was a 65% reduction in general paediatric waiting lists.

There are issues. The war in Ukraine and the cost of building materials will impact, as they have on all construction projects. The Deputy is correct in saying €1.1 billion of the Government’s-----

Taxpayers’ money.

-----approved €1.433 billion has been drawn down to date. It is a live contract and I am not going to prejudice the enforcement of that existing contract by getting into a decision about cost, hypothetical or otherwise, at this particular time. I do not think that would be advantageous to the taxpayer.

I visited the hospital recently on 17 November. Substantial progress has been achieved and it is quite impressive. The integrity of the design as originally laid out is being followed-----

The Taoiseach’s time is up.

It is a blank cheque.

-----and this is something that we need to complete as quickly as we can.

Whatever about it being disadvantageous for the Taoiseach to give a final figure of costs to the Dáil, let me tell the Taoiseach that it is wholly disadvantageous and unacceptable that the Government has set out on this project with a totally open-ended contract, playing advantage at every turn to the developer, such that we have spent €1.1 billion of taxpayers’ money.

We have €500 million of developer claims outstanding and we have a Government, Taoiseach and Minister for Health with no notion of what the final bill will be. That is not accountability for taxpayer money and is certainly not a way to do business. Is it the Taoiseach's understanding that there will be a request for further funding for the children's hospital? When will it be made? Has he any notion what the quantum of it will be? I do not accept his answer that he cannot tell people how much this piece of infrastructure will cost, but can he tell us when it will be open and operational?

Construction started in 2016 on this hospital. This Government came in last year. I am intrigued by the Deputy's line of questioning. She seems to be suggesting-----

Do not analyse my question. Give an answer.

-----that we play the contractor's game.

You did.

The Taoiseach, without interruption.

The Deputy seems to want the Government to look at it from the perspective of the contractor. Her estimates are the contractor's estimates of the claims. That does not mean that ultimately becomes a reality. Each claim is being contested through a process. Many have been contested and there is a system of arbitration. It would be foolhardy and wrong for me, the Government or the Deputy opposite to put a figure out there.

Please do not point at me.

That would not be the correct approach and the last thing politicians should do in terms of projects, which I religiously avoid,-----

Does the Government have any notion of cost?

Would the Deputy pay all the claims?

There should be a budget. Where is the budget?

-----is to announce global figures that X project will cost X, Y or Z. The Deputy is trying to create a narrative that the claims are a new reality, but those claims will be contested by the National Paediatric Hospital Development Board.

It should have been budgeted for.

The Government will hold firm on this. We are in a process but will get this hospital complete and are working with all concerned.

When will it be?