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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí (Atógáil) - Leaders' Questions (Resumed)

Energy bills and cost of living

Summary

Deputy Bacik raised severe energy bill pressures, rising poverty and what she saw as inadequate government action on prices and windfall profits. The Taoiseach replied with measures already taken and promised more legislation, including a windfall tax; the exchange ended with a brief dispute over whether it would delay investment.

My office is inundated with correspondence from householders and small business owners who cannot pay their energy bills. We know that there is an energy bills crisis and that the crisis is not new. Indeed, it is now 13 months since we in the Labour Party brought forward a Dáil motion on the cost-of-living crisis and energy prices.

While the situation was severe a year ago, it is intolerable now. We saw the latest Central Statistics Office, CSO, survey on income and living conditions confirm that the number of people at risk of poverty rose by 76,000 last year and that this rise was driven by an increase in the number of older people at risk of poverty. Our Labour Party representatives have been hearing from pensioners who have had to resort to taking out credit union loans just to meet the cost of their energy bills. Adding insult to injury are the unfairness and inequity of the crisis and the Government's hands-off approach, which has exacerbated that unfairness. We now see wholesale electricity prices falling but providers refusing to pass that benefit on to working families and households. All the while, companies are reaping record-breaking, eye-watering profits. Now we see that Electric Ireland is to cut small businesses' electricity bills by 10% from tomorrow. This is welcome news for SMEs, which we know are struggling to break even. Electric Ireland has also confirmed, however, that it will leave household charges untouched.

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We know that the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, has called on electricity and gas suppliers to cut prices for everyone as soon as possible. Is making calls on providers the best the Government can do? It is simply not good enough. In December, Electric Ireland announced that it would forego some of its profits to give a €50 credit to household customers, which was welcome. However, customers are now paying approximately 90% more per unit of electricity-----

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Somebody in Electric Ireland is trying to get through - that is all I will say - and they will not take no for an answer. A Cheann Comhairle, you might give me a little latitude-----

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I will.

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-----given that somebody's phone has gone off. I jest. I do not think it was Electric Ireland, but you never know.

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It never answers its phones anyway.

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It never answers its phones and we are hearing about that from many people who cannot get through to Electric Ireland so it is supremely ironic to have a phone call cutting across a critique of Electric Ireland. Customers are paying, as we have heard, approximately 90% more per unit of electricity than they did in the spring of last year and families are facing very significant annual bills. Where is the fairness in that? We are looking for a sense of urgency from the Government and we are looking for a sense that mere words of encouragement are not the strongest response it can provide. Previously, during Leaders’ Questions, I raised with the Taoiseach the scandal of district heating companies charging ridiculous amounts, up to four times more, for energy than other households pay. I have heard the Minister say that is a matter for the Commission for the Regulation of Utilities, which is not good enough. I have spoken before about the need for the Government to take the Corrib gas field into State ownership to enable us to control gas prices and reduce bills but again the Taoiseach has said such a move is beyond the Government’s control. However, Electric Ireland is already in State control so what is the excuse this time? How can the Government justify a hands-off approach when people are struggling to make ends meet? Ní féidir le daoine íoc as a gcuid billí míosúla. Caithfidh na comhlachtaí praghas an fhuinnimh a laghdú do theaghlaigh freisin.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Teachta as a cuid ceisteanna. I want to acknowledge the fact that businesses and people are facing very high electricity and gas bills, and as a result of that many households are struggling, particularly pensioner and low-income households. Many small businesses are also struggling with very high utility bills. Mar a dúirt an Teachta, tá an costas maireachtála an-ard. Tá an praghas ar leictreachas agus ar ghás an-ard ach tá an Rialtas anseo agus tá sé ag cabhrú. As the Deputy mentioned in her question, utility bills are now very high. I meet people, including individual homeowners and business people who show me their bills, and it has been a real shock for many people. In many ways a significant number of those big electricity and gas bills have only been arriving in recent weeks. In the run-up to Christmas and around Christmas, people thought it might not be so bad, and then the winter bills started arriving in January and February and people got a very big shock. Unfortunately, there are more bills to come in March and April. However, the Government is acting. We have taken three major actions to help people with these high costs. First is the decision to keep the VAT rate on electricity and gas at 9% until the end of October, the lowest VAT rate we have ever had on electricity and gas. We have also decided to pay energy credits and there is still another €200 energy credit to come off people's bills for the March and April period. We have also substantially improved the temporary business energy support scheme to help businesses, farmers, professionals and sole traders with their bills so that more people can qualify, so they can get more money back and it is backdated to September, which will help many people.

It is welcome that two companies so far have announced price reductions. Pinergy has announced reductions for retail customers and Electric Ireland has announced reductions for its business customers but that is nowhere near enough. Wholesale prices are coming down and I understand that there is a lag between wholesale prices coming down and retail prices for homeowners and businesses coming down. I get that but it should not be too much of a lag. It only took a few months for prices to go up so it should only take a few months for prices to go down. We expect to see electricity and gas companies reduce their prices over the course of the coming months for businesses and residential customers.

It will not just be about polite encouragement; there is a windfall tax coming and that will be legislated for in this House and in the Seanad. That will allow us to recoup some of the profits and give them back to people in the form of reductions in bills. We have to work out the exact mechanisms around that but that is what we intend to do. We will also be saying to State-owned companies that if they make hyper profits we have the power to take some of those off them in the form of a special dividend and use that money to help people as well.

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I am glad the Taoiseach acknowledges that not enough is being done but the Government is not just a bystander in this. It is time for a more urgent sense of intervention by the Government on this issue because it seems to people nach bhfuil an Rialtas ag déanamh aon rud. The Government is not doing anything for people who are seeing this inequity. It is amounting to a quadruple whammy because we have seen the magnitude of energy providers' profits and we have seen the inertia and delay in the Government's approach to a windfall tax. I am glad that the Taoiseach has confirmed that will be introduced and that the Government is looking at the super dividend approach. However, we need to know when that will happen.

The third thing we are seeing is the extortionate charges on household and, fourth, the inequity where we see reductions in wholesale prices being passed on to businesses but not to families and households. There are increasingly questions about the rationale being offered by energy companies. Electric Ireland suggested that there are hedging contracts that prevent it from moving on household bills as swiftly as it is moving on business bills, but business groups are questioning this so-called explanation and this idea that hedging contracts must necessarily lead to a time lag between wholesale price falls and reductions in bills for households. It is simply not good enough. It is good to hear the Taoiseach agree with me on the hardship that individual families and households are facing but it is not good enough that the Government is simply acting as a bystander and adopting this wait-and-see approach without acting urgently to intervene to ensure households will see the necessary reductions in their bills.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Rinne an Rialtas go leor agus beidh níos mo gníomhartha ón Rialtas sna seachtainí romhainn. The Government has done a good deal and we will do more in the coming weeks. We have reduced VAT to 9% on electricity and gas. Another energy credit will be deducted from people's bills for the March-April period. We have improved the temporary business energy support scheme, TBESS, the scheme to help businesses, farmers, sole traders and professionals with their energy bills. The next step is the windfall tax. We plan to legislate for that in the coming weeks. I know that will be welcomed by the Opposition. That tax has two elements, which are a super tax on the profits made by the Corrib gas field and various distilleries, and an element of tax on the generators. That money will be recycled into reducing bills for people, which is what we intend to do. As I mentioned earlier, when it comes to a State-owned company, we have the power to take a special dividend, which is certainly under consideration.

One thing we will disagree on is nationalising the Corrib gas field. As the Deputy will understand as a lawyer and as somebody who understands our Constitution and natural justice, to nationalise something, the shareholders have to be compensated. To do so would cost roughly ten times their annual profits. It would cost many billions of euro to nationalise that gas field, which is many billions of euro that we could not spend on other important things like education-----

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It is a temporary emergency measure.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The temporary compensation still has to be paid and there would be a temporary delay in investment in education, healthcare and housing as a result.

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