Baineann mo cheist leis na hoird rialta agus go háirithe leis na cáipéisí atá, faraor, fós i seilbh na n-ord seo. Tá an chosúlacht ar an scéal go bhfuil teipthe go hiomlán ar an Rialtas dul i ngleic leis an dúshlán na cáipéisí seo a chaomhnú agus a chosaint agus, níos tábhachtaí fós, iad a chur ar fáil do lucht acadúla agus don phobal.

My question relates to what appears to be - forgive me if I am wrong - the complete failure of this Government and previous Governments to take action to preserve and protect the records held by various religious organisations in this country. I want to distinguish, as the Government has done, between public and private records. In previous responses to me and other Deputies, the Taoiseach said that the public records in the possession of the State in various Departments will be made available in a central repository on the former site of the Magdalen laundry on Seán McDermott Street in due course. The Taoiseach might provide brief update on that.

My specific question, which is related, is on the records which have been described as private - a description I totally disagree with - and which are held by religious orders. There has been no attempt by the Government to bring in legislation to protect and preserve those records and make them available to the public. In saying that, I am acutely aware of the recent article by Fintan O’Toole about a survivor of the Glin industrial school in Limerick. Significantly, this survivor was born in 1949, the year in which this country became a republic. This man has written a book about that. The issue for me today is on a court case taken by the Christian Brothers against him because he has some records that they want back. It is not that they want to make these records available to the public. Presumably, they want to keep, hide or destroy them. The man in question is on record as saying that he burned previous records on their instructions. The Glin industrial school was sold in 1973. This date is significant because Cherish was set up in that year and the first allowance was brought in for so-called unmarried mothers. We then go forward and look at three apologies given over two centuries in respect of the various institutions and the horrific abuse carried out there. If the apologies are to mean anything, then we have to follow it with action.

One action is the central repository the Government intends to established. I presume the Taoiseach will provide an update on that. The second involves building trust by getting the records from the religious orders. We do not have those records. Recommendation 52 of the Final Report of the Commission of Investigation into Mother and Baby Homes encourages the religious orders to make their data available to the public. I do not want four minutes to be taken up with what the Government is doing in the context of the plan for the central repository. I want the Taoiseach to zone in on the specific question I am asking, namely, what steps, action or legislation are proposed to protect, conserve and make those documents available to the public?

I thank the Deputy for asking a very important question. I acknowledge that she has raised this matter before. It was not among the questions I anticipated today, so I will not be able to give a comprehensive answer. I can say, as the Deputy has mentioned already, that when it comes to public records, work is advanced now on developing a central repository to hold those records. When it comes to records that are held privately, for example, by religious institutions, a working group was established to examine all of our options and what can be done with regard to preserving and protecting those records. That working group is due to report to the Government in the near future. it has not reported as yet. Before the end of the week, I can give the Deputy a more detailed response in writing. I appreciate that what I have just said is not the comprehensive response she wants.

I thank the Taoiseach for answering my question, but this is an issue that this Government and previous Governments have dealt with. The Commission of Investigation into Mother and Baby Homes and Certain Related Matters was set up in 2015. Its report was published in 2021. The Government has to have considered this matter. It was raised by the Minister of State, Deputy Niall Collins, in respect of Limerick and the ongoing case relating to public and private records. It is an obscenity, or in the words of Fintan O’Toole, who I rarely quote, it is “grotesque” to distinguish between public and private records when we supervised and funded all of these schools and institutions. Is the Taoiseach telling me that a steering group has been set up specifically in respect of what are described as the private records held by institutions? Is that what the Taoiseach is telling me? There has been a great deal of confusion between public and private records. We owe it to this man who, at 74, is still struggling and who, in 2023, is being taken to court by the Christian Brothers. It is grotesque that decisions have not been made, actions have not been taken and the appropriate legislation has not been passed to protect, conserve and make these records available. If the Government wants to work hand in hand with us, it must create trust. The Government has gone ahead with a mother and baby institutions redress scheme that excludes over 22,000 people, not to mention those who were boarded out, those who suffered as a result of being of mixed race and so on. I am over time. I apologise for that. Honestly, it is time for straight talking, for creating an environment of trust and for passing on that trust to the survivors.

Again, I will be happy to come back to the Deputy later in the week with a more comprehensive response. I appreciate that she has raised this issue before. There is a distinction between public and private records. Public records are owned by the State; they are in our possession. Private records are not owned or in the possession of the State. People have rights in the context of private records. Under existing data protection and privacy legislation, a person has the right, in some circumstances, to access information about himself or herself where that information is held privately. I appreciate that the Deputy is talking about more than that. She is concerned with giving people access to records relating to them and ensuring that those records are not destroyed and are held in a way in which people can access them. That is something I am briefed on, but I have not been briefed on it for several weeks. I know that the working group is due to report quite soon. I will come back to the Deputy with a more comprehensive response by the end of the week.