Has the Ceann Comhairle ever noticed how happy this Minister is when he takes the Leaders questions?

The Deputy is fairly happy there himself, by the looks of things.

I would not usually describe Deputy Barry as being happy.

One would almost think that the Minister was at an audition or something. He might not be the happiest man in the House though as earlier on I could have sworn I saw the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science skating down the corridor with a copy of The Irish Times tucked under his arm whistling a tune and polishing a piece of cutlery, and I do not think it was a spoon.

The Tánaiste got a little upset this morning when I questioned the line-up of speakers at his consultative forum on international security policy, which is due to kick-off in Cork next Thursday.

The chairwoman of this event, as the Minister knows, it is a dame of the British empire who has offered up explanations bordering on justifications in writing for the bloody interventions of US governments in Latin America. She is also due to write the official report of the forum.

This morning I listed a number of speakers at the forum who I felt were reflecting a one-sided debate, so to speak. My point, of course, was that this is not a genuine forum or genuine debate and that it is a stitch-up. The whole point of it is to soften Irish public opinion for increased military spending, military co-operation with imperial powers and de facto associate membership of NATO. The Tánaiste did not like this and said that I had displayed a shocking intolerance to the whole idea of debate and he warned that I was not going to get away with it.

Following on from this morning’s exchange, I asked my office to analyse the list of 71 invited speakers to the forum. We calculate that there is a 5:1 ratio between speakers who on the one hand are overtly pro-NATO, overtly pro-EU militarisation, have a history of doing work for the military machines or have previously advocated for militarisation and, on the other, speakers with a history of strong or consistently strong opposition to those forces and agendas. The main debate which will take place at that forum is not on whether Ireland should join the rush to militarise but rather on the degree to which we should do that, at what pace and in alliance with which imperial forces, thanks to the way in which the forum has been rigged.

Will the Minister admit that this is an extraordinarily biased speakers' list and invite an equal number of speakers who reflect the majority view of the Irish people, or would that undermine the actual agenda of the Minister and of the Government?

I see the Deputy carried out that extensive research on the list of speakers at breakneck speed and I suggest that the research and the results thereof would probably require some independent verification so I am not going to take the results of his research as gospel here this morning, if he does not mind.

As a Government and as a country, we are very conscious that since Russia’s brutal and illegal war on Ukraine, on which some would question the Deputy’s response, international relations and the international security environment have changed. Unfortunately, there is, whether Deputy Barry likes it or not, an increase in the geopolitical risk and Ireland cannot be complacent. We need to discuss, debate and analyse our international security and neutrality in a measured manner. We need to listen to experts from Ireland and abroad.

Against that backdrop the consultative forum established by the Tánaiste on international security policy is being convened with a view to initiating an open and evidenced-based discussion on the State’s foreign and security policy.

I reject outright the Deputy’s assertion that this is about joining NATO or becoming some de facto member of NATO. It is absolutely not. That may suit the Deputy’s narrative and his megaphone political points but it is not about joining NATO, as some would suggest. There are no predetermined or preconceived outcomes from the discussion of the forum. Participants will be free to raise any relevant issues during deliberations. A consultative forum is designed to build public understanding and to generate discussion on the link between the State’s foreign, security and defence policies. That does not mean a rush to militarisation. It covers everything from cyber security and our own maritime security to international cables and all those various things. Should there be another cyber attack here, Deputy Barry would probably be one of the first Deputies in the House to be jumping up and down to ask why we have not put the required resources into it. He would not apportion blame, however, as to who was behind it, I am certain, either.

The forum will discuss these issues in a broad policy context, including a focus on Ireland’s work to protect the rules-based international order through engagement in peacekeeping. We are very proud of the unbroken track record our Defence Forces have in peacekeeping right across this world, much of which Deputy Barry and his party does not support.

The forum will consider the lessons from our UN Security Council membership in this regard, the global strategic stability, international arms control, proliferation challenges, as well as the challenges posed by new and emerging threats. It will examine the threat landscape in relation to cyber, hybrid and critical infrastructure. The forum, as the Deputy knows, will be under way on 22 June at UCC, on 23 June at the University of Galway and on 26 and 27 June at Dublin Castle. The Deputy should not be afraid of debate or of listening to people with potentially differing views and I reject the Deputy’s assertion that in some way, shape or form the list of speakers is stacked.

It is stacked pretty high. We would welcome genuine independent verification of that speaker list. I believe it will show that the figures we have put forward are pretty damned accurate. Certainly, it will show that this is far from an even debate. As I say, it is arranged in such a way that the debate is about how fast and what exact alliances we should consider rather than whether we maintain what the Government says is the traditional policy, or change it in a significant way.

Of course, what the Minister describes as the traditional policy of neutrality has been chipped away at and undermined for years and years by Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael. How many US military personnel have passed through Shannon Airport now? I think it has gone over the 3 million mark.

The Minister says that his agenda is not to join NATO. The Irish people will not allow that but it is pretty clear that the Government’s agenda is increased military spending, increased military co-operation with European powers, including imperial powers, and de facto associate membership of NATO. That is what the stitch-up in Cork, Galway and Dublin is all about and is why there will be protest on the issue and real debate generated by people who support the majority view of the Irish people on this issue.

The nub of the Deputy’s comment was at the very end when he said that is why there will be protests at this forum. I am sure that Deputy Barry will be outside there in Cork himself with his megaphone and placards, which is his right if he wishes, and I respect that while I disagree with him.

There is no stitch-up here. Even Deputy Barry must realise that the geopolitical situation across the world, but particularly here in Europe, has changed in the past 16 or 17 months even though he was slow to admit that at the time. I am not sure if his definition of “imperial powers” also includes the Russian Federation.

It certainly does.

That is a good change in his outlook.

That is not a change at all.

It is right as a sovereign nation that we allow debate within the country, that we have fora such as this, particularly when we look at how things have changed on our own Continent with the largest outbreak of war on the European Continent since the Second World War. Should we just sit there silently and not even discuss what the potential issues would be and how we can strengthen our own security as a sovereign proud state within the European Union?

It is also the European Union acting together in solidarity with our friends in Ukraine, and a European Union that neither the Deputy nor the Deputy's party support.