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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Section 39 and 56 pay dispute

Summary

Deputy Bacik raises the threatened strike by section 39 and 56 organisations, especially in disability services, and argues the State should recognise its role in funding pay and conditions. The Taoiseach says the Government values the services, is not the direct employer, and points to a similar accepted offer in the community sector, while Bacik and others reject that comparison.

I welcome the Taoiseach back. My question to him today is who cares for the carers. We in the Labour Party are not sure that his Government appreciates the crisis in care. A protest is currently taking place outside the Dáil by childcare and early years education providers. We all hear all the time from parents, staff and workers in the childcare sector who are being failed. Parents cannot access affordable childcare for their children, staff cannot afford to live on the wages in the sector and children are being failed by this.

It is not only a crisis in childcare. Yesterday, Fórsa, SIPTU and the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation, INMO, which represent 5,000 staff in the community and voluntary care sector, all balloted for indefinite strike action from 17 October. Withdrawing labour is no easy decision. It is a last resort, but what other option do workers in this sector have? These are workers who provide a lifeline to Ireland's most vulnerable communities, caring for our homeless, providing disability services and providing support for older people, and they provide these essential services on behalf of the State, on behalf of the Government, yet it has washed its hands of responsibility for them.

It is almost one year since this House debated a Labour Party motion to fund pay rises for workers in section 39 organisations and others in the community and voluntary sector. The Government allowed the motion to pass. It did not oppose it but has done nothing since. Now, creaking services are being held together by staff who are facing another winter of spiralling housing costs with wages that have stagnated. One worker from a section 39 organisation stated that serving and supporting the most vulnerable people in our society makes them very proud but that the Government offer compromises the future of organisations like the one they work in:

Staff turnover is high. Nurses and care staff are leaving every day for better care and conditions in section 38 areas ... is a bitter pill to swallow in the current cost-of-living crisis. Rising inflation, increased interest rates and rising childcare costs are crippling.

That is one person's testimony but it represents the experience of many in the sector.

Services are suffering as a result. Disability and homelessness services are near collapse. Almost 3,000 people have been forced into emergency accommodation due the Government's failed housing policy. The United Nations has criticised Ireland for potential violations in disability services. Yesterday, the Central Statistics Office, CSO, confirmed that 3,600 sexual offences were reported in the year to this spring. These are official statistics. They understate the scale of the problems. Every family is in some way reliant on the care of community and voluntary workers, yet current Government policy is that the value of workers who support people in homelessness and disability services and through rape crisis and domestic violence, if they work for section 10, 39 or 56 organisations, is somehow less than the value of the equivalent workers who are employed directly by the State to provide the same services.

Playing chicken with community and voluntary workers in the way the Government has done is irresponsible, verging on reckless. My question about these heroic workers who have had no pay rise since 2008 is whether the Government will accept their demands for pay parity and will it apply future public pay sector agreements to community and voluntary service workers? Will it take action on the request in the Labour Party motion that was passed exactly one year ago?

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I thank the Deputy. The threatened strike by section 39 and section 56 organisations is a matter of real concern, especially to the people who need those services daily, to their families and to their carers. The Government is very aware of the potential inconvenience that could be caused should the strike go ahead. I hope it will not. Much of the work done by these bodies is in the disability sector. The work they do is valuable and I assure the Deputy the Government values it.

It is important to state we are not the employer in this instance and we do not determine pay rates, which vary from organisation to organisation. As we have found with other organisations, they can vary both downwards and, in some cases, upwards, although it is mainly downwards in these cases. We do have a role to play as the funder, however. We are the main funder of these organisations and we accept that responsibility. If these organisations did not exist, their services would have to be provided directly by the State. We acknowledge we have a role to play in resolving this.

An offer has been made, which had three elements: a 5% pay increase, a backdated 3% pay increase, and a commitment to engage with the sector again if and when we have a new public sector pay agreement. We do not have one yet, but we hope to have one in the coming weeks or months. We have given a commitment to holding follow-on talks, as used to happen in the past, in the event there is a new public sector pay deal. That is 5% now, 3% backdated, and a commitment to engage on more in a matter of weeks if and when we have a new public sector pay agreement. That offer was accepted by the community sector, which voted on it. Some 82% voted in favour. Unfortunately, staff were not given a vote. I regret that. The offer is still on the table. I ask the unions involved to at least give consideration to balloting their members on it to see what the outcome of such a ballot would be. If they are not willing to do that, there are mechanisms by which they can engage with the employers and with the Government, through the Workplace Relations Commission and Labour Court, which I hope will enable this strike not to happen.

Comment on this

I am glad the Taoiseach acknowledged the severe impact this action would have on those who are so utterly reliant on the services provided by workers in these organisations, because we are all very conscious of the great impact this proposed strike would have on those who are most reliant on services. Frankly, it is a cop-out for the Taoiseach to say the Government is not the employer here.

Comment on this

Hear, hear.

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What the organisations are seeking is a restoration of the link that existed and a clear recognition that these are services provided on behalf of the State. The State is the funder, as the Taoiseach himself has acknowledged. We are simply asking for that recognition and acknowledgment to translate, in a practical sense, to a decent offer of pay and conditions for the workers who are impacted and for the service users who will be impacted. As I have said, we in the Labour Party have consistently raised this issue over many months. My colleague Deputy Duncan Smith raised it in the first weeks following the Dáil's resumption last year. We also brought forward a motion last year. The Government's support for that motion recognises the need to move on this yet the offer is derisory. It is below the rate of inflation. These are workers who love their jobs. We all know people who work in these services. They care deeply for service users but they are being forced out of the sector in search of better pay and conditions elsewhere. Will the Taoiseach grasp the nettle in advance of 17 October?

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

As I mentioned earlier, a good offer was made and this offer was accepted by people in the community sector when a ballot was held.

Comment on this

That is not directly comparable.

Comment on this

It is a different sector.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I appreciate there may be differences but it is important to point out that this offer was accepted in a similar sector. It is a 5% pay increase applying from November, that is, a 5% pay increase being paid within a matter of weeks and before Christmas; an additional 3% backdated to April, which would result in a lump sum payment in this calendar year; and a commitment to engage, as we did in the past, if and when we have a new public sector pay deal. I believe that was a good offer and I am sorry it was not accepted. There is always time to engage before strike action takes place. I acknowledge that, if it does take place, it will have an impact on people who use these services. In the meantime, both Tusla and the HSE have been asked, for obvious reasons, to make contingency plans to make sure a minimum level of essential service continues to be provided should the strike go ahead.

Comment on this