I want to raise with the Tánaiste a long-standing issue that stretches back almost 15 years, namely the pay dispute involving thousands of section 39, section 10 and section 56 workers who have not had a meaningful pay increase during those 15 years. As I am sure the Tánaiste will agree, merely naming just the section 39, section 56 and section 10 workers does a great disservice to these workers and, indeed, to the people who depend on the services. These workers are on the front line. They provide essential services every day of the week in areas across health, disability, family support, children, care of older persons, homelessness and addiction.

The workers and their trade unions, namely, SIPTU, the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation, INMO, and Fórsa, have been campaigning to resolve these pay issues and secure pay parity for years now. They are in a situation where they are being paid the same rate in 2023 as they had been in 2008. The Tánaiste and I know very well that nothing costs the same today as it did in 2008. These vital agencies are experiencing a recruitment and retention crisis. I have seen this for myself, and I am sure the Tánaiste is aware of it.

I recently visited St. Aidan’s Day Care Centre, Gorey. The service there provides overnight, respite, residential and day services for people with intellectual disabilities. The service is cherished by the local community, the service users, their families and the workers who are there but it is losing staff on a daily basis. The centre is losing staff to retail and areas to which the staff do not necessarily want to go to work. These people are trained healthcare professionals. They are losing staff on a daily basis, and they do not know how they will fill the slots on the roster.

As a result of the failure to resolve this dispute, workers in the community and voluntary sector are to commence indefinite strike action from 17 October. This will impact users of services such as Cheshire Ireland, Ability West, CoAction West Cork, Cobh Community Hospital, Daughters of Charity Child and Family Service, Depaul Ireland, Enable Ireland, the Irish Wheelchair Association and many more. I ask the Tánaiste to think of the people who rely on these services. These are children with disabilities and older people. I ask him to think of their families and the impact that losing these vital services will have on the quality of their lives.

I am conscious of the effect this is having on children's disability network teams, CDNTs, in particular. We have discussed many times in this House the impact on children who are unable to get assessments, who are unable to access services and who are unable to access treatments. Families and service users need to be central to any discussions around this strike. If this strike action is not averted by the Government, then the State and the HSE will have to step in to provide these services directly. If the industrial action is not averted and the HSE cannot provide these services, then families will have to take annual leave. They might have to pay for private services if they have the money, and many of them do not. They may have to let their loved ones go without. All of this will have an impact on vulnerable service users, such as children with disabilities and older people. It will also have a huge impact on their families and their loved ones. People wait for years for assessments or for an appointment with a vital therapy service. These are going to be cancelled from 17 October and the families and service users are starting to get very worried about whether there will be a replacement service, as well as about what - if any - planning is being done for a catch-up if they are forced to miss out.

If the Government does not resolve this dispute, then the immediate and ripple impact of the strike action will not leave a single person unaffected. I ask the Tánaiste to please give a commitment that the Government will engage with the workers and their trade unions in a meaningful way and in good faith in order that positive outcomes can be achieved through constructive negotiation and the averting of this industrial action. If the industrial action does go ahead, will the Tánaiste give a commitment that the HSE will step in and provide these vital services?

First, I appreciate the Deputy's raising of this issue. I am very well aware of the historical nature of this, particularly in the context of the differentials between public service employees following the restoration of the financial emergency measures in the public interest, FEMPI, cuts and those who are working in section 39 organisations who did not get the same level of restoration. Yet, it is a more complex terrain in terms of the multiplicity of organisations, as well as the scale and size of organisations. Clearly, we do not in any way disagree that this is an issue that needs to be resolved.

I am conscious that the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth has engaged with the trade unions in relation to this. We understand the staffing and recruitment issues that have arisen because of emerging pay differentials. This is notwithstanding historic allocations in more general terms, such as in disability funding, which have taken place over the last three years and which has been quite significant. Nonetheless, there are significant issues here.

Officials from the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, the Department of Health, the HSE and Tusla attended a number of engagements at the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, over recent months, along with the trade unions. That process culminated in an offer being made to unions. The offer was in line with those that had been accepted by community and voluntary staff in other sectors. It amounted to an approximately 5% increase in funding for pay, effective from November 2023, with 3% being back-dated to April 2023. A commitment to re-engage with trade union representatives following any further public sector pay agreement was also offered. That offer remains on the table. That offer was not acceptable to the trade union representatives and, subsequently, the decision was taken to take strike action. I hope that strike action can be averted and I urge all sides to revert back to the negotiating table. I say this because industrial action will negatively impact on people who use these vital services. I encourage unions and employers to re-engage. The Department is available to go back into the Workplace Relations Commission. The Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform is conscious of the issue and there is ongoing dialogue with the Department of Health in respect of the overall budget for 2024.

I genuinely believe that, notwithstanding the fact that the process to date has not yielded a resolution, we must deal with this through the industrial relations mechanisms in order to avoid a negative impact on those who use the services. I am very conscious of the issues here. We need a just and fair resolution. We need a just and fair resolution that is sustainable into the future-----

Yes.

-----in respect of future pay agreements. That has to be in an overall context because the trend that has occurred over the last decade has been that the public service pay agreement is first settled and then we enter into discussions with the section 39 organisations. It is my view that the overall framework has to be sustainable into the future for these organisations, because they are providing vital public services. I acknowledge that. Within that framework, there should be mechanisms to try to resolve this. Notwithstanding the complexities, these are statutorily or legally private. They are not public service organisations. That is the point I am making. They vary pretty significantly in size, scale, etc.

They are not public service organisations but they are providing public services. They are doing it on wage rates that are way behind those who are their exact and direct equivalents within the public service. The Tánaiste said it is his hope that the dispute will be resolved, but he could do a little bit more than hope. He could actually be proactive about it, and that is what the families want to see.

Let us bear in mind that these workers do not want to be on strike. That is the last thing they want to do. I know this. I know these workers well. I represented them. They do not want to have to do this. They are doing it because they have no option. The Tánaiste referenced the community sector and that is somewhat disingenuous, if I can say that, because that is not a direct comparison However, there is a direct comparison within the public service, the HSE and the statutory agencies. We know they have a direct comparison. We know that they traditionally have been linked to those organisations and that link was broken. I ask the Tánaiste to first ensure that there is proactive, good-faith engagement at the WRC. That means decision-makers being in the room and if that necessitates officials from the Department of Finance being there, then they should be there.

Second, if this strike goes ahead, is there provision to maintain the service for those families and service users?

First, in the context of the use of the word "hope", I believe this issue can be resolved. As recently as Tuesday, officials from the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth engaged with the trade unions on the issue, and there will be further engagement next week. The Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, has informed me of that. The Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte is very strongly over this. As far as I am concerned, this is a priority issue that we need to resolve. I have been a strong advocate for the resolution of this issue within government. We all collectively accept the issues but we also acknowledge that this has built up over a decade. The important focus must be on the process. The industrial relations process is the one to resolve this either through the WRC or the Labour Court. In my view we should put our energies together. There is a commitment and a will to try to get this resolved, not just in the short term, as we need a more sustainable framework over the medium to longer term in respect of these organisations which are providing vital services for many people across the country.