We use Google Analytics to see which pages are read and how the site is used, so we know what to improve. This only runs if you accept. See our privacy notice for details.

Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

State pension age at 65

Summary

Deputy Doherty argues people should be allowed retire and draw a pension at 65, and says the Government has broken that promise. The Taoiseach defends keeping the pension age at 66, attacks Sinn Féin’s record on PRSI and pension policy, and says longer retirements must be paid for. The exchange deteriorates into repeated interruptions about the “Belfast brickie” and ministerial pensions before the Chair moves on.

San olltoghchán deireanach in 2020, sheol vótálaithe teachtaireacht láidir agus soiléir gur cheart go mbeadh an deis agus an ceart ag daoine éirí as obair ag 65 bliain d’aois agus an pinsean a bheith acu. Go simplí, baineann seo le cearta agus le cothrom na féinne. Nuair a bhíonn 65 bliain d’aois sroichte ag daoine agus iad ag obair, ba cheart go mbeadh an seans acu éirí as. Tá a gcuid sealanna déanta acu agus a gcuid cánach íoctha acu. Ba chóir go mbeadh an ceart sin bainte amach acu agus cead acu éirí as obair ag 65 agus an pinsean a fháil. Níl seo le fáil acu áfach, agus tá sé soiléir go bhfuil an Rialtas ag diúltú seo go fóill.

At the last general election in 2020, voters sent a very clear and loud message that people have the right to retire at the age of 65 years and this is simply about fairness. When people have reached the age of 65 they have worked their shifts and they have paid their dues. If a person is working on their feet all day, whether on a construction site, in a hairdresser's, in hospitality or on a factory floor, they cannot be expected to continue working beyond the pension age. All workers, when they reach that age, must be given the freedom to choose to retire or work on if they wish. Workers need to know the Government will treat them fairly and protect their rights.

However, let us be clear this is a Government, and indeed two parties, that legislated to increase the retirement age to 68 years. It was only Sinn Féin and public pressure at the last election that put a stop to that. People have been waiting for years for the Government to outline a very clear roadmap and hoping that roadmap would tell them they have the right to down tools at the age of 65 if they choose to. They will be sorely disappointed today, because what this Government is telling that brickie, that hairdresser and that waitress is that they do not have the right to retire at the age of 65. This Government has again let them down. It has fudged its responsibility and is abandoning workers in this regard. The various options developed and the data gathered by the Pensions Commission made it clear it was possible to put the Social Insurance Fund on a sustainable footing and afford the people the right to retire on a pension at the age of 65.

Despite this, the plan announced today still does not give workers the right to retire at the age of 65. This is a core commitment we in Sinn Féin would deliver in government. Sinn Féin's proposal to increase employers' PRSI on the portion of pay above €100,000 would immediately cover the cost of introducing the right to retire on a pension for those who have reached the age of 65 years. We are clear about delivering this important right in a way that is sustainable and gives workers certainty and security. This is security people at work need. In construction sites, restaurants, hairdressers and on factory floors across this State are people who need to prepare and plan and who deserve to know that after a lifetime of work they will be treated with fairness and respect by a system they have paid into all their lives. I ask the Taoiseach, because workers need to know, why is this Government is still refusing to give people the right to retire at the age of 65 on a pension if they choose to and when will the Government wake up to the reality and treat workers with the respect they deserve?

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I thank the Deputy. He may recall that in the 2020 election, the parties that form the Government, namely, Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil and the Green Party, won 51% of the vote. That is why we are the Government and Sinn Féin is not. Let us not forget that. Getting a plurality of the vote is not a majority; quite far from it. When it comes to the issue the Deputy raises, the Government has decided the State pension age will remain at 66. People will have the choice to retire later if they so wish. They can retire at 67, 68, 69 or 70 and if they do so they will get an increased State pension, but the default pension age remains 66 and anyone who has reached the age of 66 can at that point draw down their State pension.

The State pension has been at 66 for quite some time now. I think it may be ten years now the State pension age in Ireland has been 66 and indeed that is the age in Northern Ireland and the Deputy's party voted for 66 in Northern Ireland, which we should not forget. We took a decision we would not raise the pension age beyond 66. Other countries are doing that, reflecting the fact demographics are changing but we have decided not to raise the pension age to 67 and that comes with a cost. We will have to cover that cost by increasing very gradually employers', self-employed and employee's PRSI over the course of the next number of years. We have set out the schedule for how that will be done, with the first increase of 0.1% in October 2024. In a full year, that will cost the average worker about €45 or €50. That is the cost of not raising the pension age and it is a cost I think most people will be willing to bear.

In addition to that, we are making further reforms to the PRSI system. We believe work should pay and if people pay more money into the Social Insurance Fund, they should more benefits as a result. Part of the reforms the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, is bringing in is that if people are made unemployed, for the first few months afterwards they will not get paid the basic jobseeker's rate but will be paid a higher rate.

It is a little bit like how the pandemic unemployment payment operated. It is an important step forward and I hope it is something the Opposition will support. However, like everything, it has to be funded and paid for. The Sinn Féin philosophy is that people can be given new benefits and new things for free and that someone else will pay. That is not honest. If we are going to keep the pension age at 66, which we are, and if we are going to bring in new benefits for all workers, then it is only fair that those who benefit from it, all workers, should contribute. That is why we have adopted the approach we have.

Comment on this

The Taoiseach talks about not being honest. What about saying that increases in PRSI are a tax on jobs and that is why people should not vote for Sinn Féin? Those are the words that came out of his mouth. What has he done now? He has increased PRSI. We have always made it clear that these measures have to be funded. The right to retire on a pension has existed while the Taoiseach has been in government. It was a Fine Gael Government that abolished it in 2014. We are very clear. We know what the outcome of the last election was but let us be very clear. On behalf of Sinn Féin, I pledge that, if we get elected and form a government after the next election, we will give people the right to retire at the age of 65 if they choose to. Why? It is because we recognise that the brickie who is out in the rain today laying bricks and building the houses we need deserves that choice. We know that the hairdresser who has been on his or her feet since 9 o'clock this morning deserves that right, as does the person slogging it out on the factory floor. That is the difference. We have shown how it can be funded. The Government has already made a U-turn because of the pressure Sinn Féin put on it in the last election campaign and the fact that people demanded that it abandon its proposals and what it legislated for, which was to increase the pension age to 68. Why does the Taoiseach believe that that brickie today should not have the right to retire at the age of 65 when he did have the right to retire at that age ten years ago?

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

As is so often the case, the Deputy's passion is phoney. Sinn Féin voted for the pension age to be 66 in Northern Ireland. Why should people in Northern Ireland have a different retirement age from people in the Republic of Ireland? Is it because there are two Sinn Féins? It just does not make sense. If the Deputy cannot explain why his party voted for a pension age of 66 in Northern Ireland-----

Comment on this

Do not embarrass yourself.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

----while advocating for 65 in the Republic of Ireland, then he does not have a coherent case. I will be interested to see if Sinn Féin proposes in its next manifesto what it proposed in its last, which was a massive 40% increase in employers' PRSI-----

Comment on this

That is not true.

Comment on this

The Taoiseach is spoofing again.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----which would have been an anti-jobs measure. That is absolutely true.

Comment on this

There are so many untruths coming from the Taoiseach it is unbelievable.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It would have been an anti-jobs measure and would have cost jobs.

Comment on this

When the Taoiseach has to resort to that-----

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

When it comes to the pension age and the retirement age, the Deputy and I were both born in the 1970s. At that time, the pension age in Ireland was 70 and the average life expectancy for a man was 68. All the calculations, going back through the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s, were based on the idea that people would pay into the Social Insurance Fund for 30 or 40 years and only be retired for a few. That has fundamentally changed. People now live longer and are retired for 20 or 30 years. That is great but it has to be paid for.

Comment on this

Of course it does but the Taoiseach still has not answered the question of what he would say to the brickie or the hairdresser.

Comment on this
Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Táim ag bogadh ar aghaidh.

Comment on this

What about the brickie in Northern Ireland?

Comment on this

Free the Belfast brickie.

Comment on this
Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Táim ag bogadh ar aghaidh. Would Deputies please-----

Comment on this

There are elections up North next year if the Government parties want to stand for them.

Comment on this

What about 65 for the Belfast brickie?

Comment on this

Half of the people on the Government benches can retire on a full pension at the age of 50. That is the reality. They will be able to take their full pension at 50.

Comment on this
Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Could we have a little respect for the role of the Chair? I am moving on to the Social Democrats and an Teachta Holly Cairns.

Comment on this