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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Migration and public safety concerns

Summary

Michael Lowry said last week’s violence had intensified public fears about migration, vacant buildings and pressure on communities, while insisting he was not racist. The Taoiseach warned against conflating migration with illegality, defended the value of migration, and said Ireland needs properly equipped schools and GP services alongside a recognition fund for welcoming communities.

On the same theme, the events that took place on the streets of our capital city last Thursday night will haunt people's memories for many years to come. A knife attack on innocent children is the most despicable form of violence. People are sickened by what took place outside that school. It has rattled them to the very core. Above all, people need to know that their children are safe. They need to know that the streets in our cities, in our towns and in our villages are safe. Those who swept through the city streets last week were not seeking justice for the school incident. They had been waiting in the wings for a reason to riot. They were ready for an opportunity to take the law into their own hands. People in every corner of the country robustly and justifiably condemn the scenes of vicious hostility and pillaging they witnessed.

Recently in the Dáil I addressed the Taoiseach on the resentment that is simmering in towns and villages across Ireland. This genuine and heartfelt anger is not coming from organised factions; it is coming from ordinary people. People are filled with pent-up worry, fear and frustration at how their communities have changed due to the influx of international protection applicants. It has reached the stage where people-----

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This is the sort of language that just goes on to-----

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Deputy Bacik, please.

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It has reached the stage where people fear the Department will target every vacant building in their communities. I want to say that the Irish people are not racist, and I am not racist.

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Really? Go home and collect your money.

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They have welcomed, and I have welcomed, the victims of the war in Ukraine with open arms. They have willingly opened their hearts to those in need. However, I believe it is time to modify and rebalance our immigration policy.

The events of last week taught us about the critical role of our gardaí in society and the urgent necessity to focus on the limitations of the force. The images of rank and file gardaí entering last week's volatile eruption were frightening. Our gardaí on duty were brave and courageous in the face of hostility. I believe the Garda Commissioner's comments, "We responded as the events unfolded", sum up the situation. I believe that this approach and response was an abject failure of management and policing policy. It was a humiliating operational failure. It has been obvious for some time that the policy of Garda management in standing back with a softly, softly approach does not work. Reluctance to confront protesters and a passive approach emboldens the perpetrators. It is long past time to take the gloves off with these hooligans. The gardaí are under more surveillance than the criminals themselves. The level of bureaucracy and procedure, with the excessive focus on discipline, has left our force in fear of acting. The spontaneity, decisiveness and discretion of Garda members is suppressed. Gardaí tell us that they are paralysed with the threat of investigation, suspension or sanction. Our Garda force is under enormous pressure. Every member of this House has a responsibility to ensure we provide the necessary resources, equipment and technology it urgently needs and deserves.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I thank the Deputy. More than ever, all of us in this House need to be willing to talk about migration and to do so in a fair way.

I want to make the case for migration and why it is a good thing for Ireland. When I go into any hospital in Ireland, including ones in which I have worked, I see a very diverse workforce. Many of the doctors, nurses and other staff who looked after the stabbing victims come from other parts of the world. When I go into high-tech or pharmaceutical companies - the ones paying massive taxes to the State - I see a diverse workforce. I know those companies would not be in Ireland were it not for the fact that they can recruit staff from all over the world. We would not have the money we now have for health, education or housing were it not for the migrants who come to Ireland and work in those companies. When I go to a restaurant, café or shop, I see a diverse workforce as well. Ireland would not be the country it is, we would not have the public services we have and, in all ways imaginable, Ireland would not be a better place in any way I can think of were it not for the fact that so many people come here legally to take up work, study and visit. It is important that we all have the courage as politicians to make the case in favour of migration to the State.

A lot of people, particularly people of colour in Ireland, are very afraid because of what happened on Thursday night. I have spoken to business owners who had to close their shops or offices early because staff, particularly staff who are brown or black, were afraid of what might happen to them. More than ever, we all need to understand - me, Deputy Lowry and everyone - the effects our words might have when talking about the issue of migration. That is not for a second to dismiss concerns people may have. If a large number of people move into a local area, town or village, of course people will have concerns which need to be addressed and answered. Of course there is a difference between people who come to the country legally and those who arrive irregularly. The amount of control we exert over that, as with any state, is limited. The United Kingdom, for example, has proposed a hostile environment for migration for many years. That is the term it uses; it is not my term. It left the European Union in part to take back control of borders. The front page of the Financial Times during the week stated there were record numbers of migrants and immigrants going to the UK for lots of different reasons. We need to be honest with people about all of these issues.

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I thank the Taoiseach for his response. I fully understand and appreciate the value of migration. His final comments address the issue I am raising, which I raised in the past with him, about the influx of people. I am not hindering their opportunity to come to Ireland but local people are extremely concerned about the numbers arriving in their small villages and towns without the support and services needed to address their care. That is happening on a wide scale around rural Ireland. It needs to be addressed. We need not mix that up; I am talking about illegal migration. I think everyone in this House knows, as does the Minister, that I have been very supportive of the Minister in his work in County Tipperary and rural Ireland. We need to address the issue of illegal migration.

Finally, there is a lot of grandstanding on this issue. I will not support a vote of no confidence in the Minister or in the Commissioner because I believe doing so would give in to the hooligans who take pleasure and delight in seeing a response to their actions.

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Says a convicted criminal.

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Say that on the record. You are a lout, that is what you are.

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I am not a criminal though, like you; a convicted criminal.

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I appreciate Deputy Lowry's bona fides in this matter. It is important to say that people who come to Ireland to seek international protection are not necessarily here illegally. Under our laws, people can seek international protection in Ireland and their status only becomes illegal when their application has been refused and a deportation issued. It is important that people do not conflate those seeking international protection with people who are here illegally. It is not the same thing.

On what the Deputy said about people's concerns, I understand and appreciate those concerns. I know them from my constituency and from around the country. When a large number of people from any background are accommodated in your parish, town or village, of course there will be concerns about the impact on education, law and order and health.

Yes, we need to respond to that. We have established community engagement programmes to give people proper information about what is happening. We have the community-----

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Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

-----recognition fund to recognise communities that have accepted a lot of people. I know we need to do a lot more to make sure the schools and GP services in particular are properly equipped. There are a lot of challenges to doing that, but we know we have to act in those areas.

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