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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Immigration debate and migration concerns

Summary

Deputy Harkin called for an honest national debate on immigration and raised concerns about single men seeking asylum and community tensions. The Taoiseach strongly rejected linking those concerns to Ashling Murphy’s murder or to violence against women, and the exchange devolved into a lengthy procedural and argumentative back-and-forth about misquotation and the need for a factual immigration debate.

Taoiseach, last November I asked you as Taoiseach, as leader of our country, to lead what I hoped would be an open, honest, factual and respectful debate on immigration. So far this has not happened. In my view, until we treat our citizens as adults and trust them with all the facts - the nice stuff we want them to hear and the hard facts, the tough stuff that is difficult - people will get and have got some of their information elsewhere, and that is not always good.

Today I want to raise one issue with you: the difficult national conversation around single men who are seeking asylum and the specific situation whereby some communities have said they will welcome and integrate families but not groups of single men. The knee-jerk reaction is that this is unacceptable and racist, and that these are far-right tropes. I am asking for a little bit of reflection. Just two years ago, thousands of visceral statements from so many Irish women followed the horrific murder of Ashling Murphy. I still remember some of the comments from the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, in this House:

Not all men but all women grow up knowing we are not safe. [...] Not all men but all women know the feeling that creeps up your back when you hear steps behind you and you have to check.

The Dáil was also told that "By simply existing, women's lives are at risk from men whom they know and men whom they do not know".

Taoiseach, we believed women two years ago when they made these statements about Irish men. Why do we not at least entertain those statements from women now when they speak about the idea of 30, 40, or 50 single asylum seekers arriving in their town or village, living three or four to a room with no family connections and nothing to do most of the time? Why do we not take on those concerns as genuine? Let me be crystal clear. There is no evidence - zero evidence, none, none, none - that they pose any greater threat than 80 Irish men, but many women have said to me and I believe them that they would say the same thing about 80 Irish men in the same circumstances. I am not saying there is no racism involved here. We all need to question ourselves, but this heightened concern is real. I am just asking you to listen, to engage and to believe.

I am asking you to have the debate, warts and all, and to manage this in a reasonable and rational way so that we can honour our commitments and bring communities with us.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I have to be honest - I am quite disappointed in the question the Deputy asked. I can see the faces of many people around this House, who I think agree with me. I think the killing and the death of Ashling Murphy was one of those events that really touched the nation. I remember it so well. I remember the outpouring of grief for that young woman who was killed in the way she was. I remember the anniversary only a few weeks ago. I really think that to connect that to a debate about international protection and migration is really wrong.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It is really wrong. The evil person who killed poor Ashling Murphy was an EU citizen who had been in the country for the best part of ten years, working and paying taxes. That is how he acquired his rights to social welfare and other things. Sadly, he turned on that girl, for whatever reason he did, and killed her. To connect that to international protection and refugees coming to this country, whether they are genuine or not, is really wrong. Really, Deputy, do not bring our country down into that spiral. Please do not.

Comment on this

The Taoiseach is disappointed. I am disappointed that he did not engage. I am disappointed that he did not respond to the real concerns that I hear from people. This is dividing people. I will not be lectured. At the last public meeting that I attended, vile slurs were spoken against migrants and I was the only public representative who called them out. I can tell the Taoiseach that there were members of his own party at that meeting who shut their mouths, but I did not, because I will not listen to it. Equally, when members of my community express what they feel are genuine concerns, I will not close my ears. I expect this House, as the House that represents the people of Ireland, to take this on board. We cannot just have the one narrative. We cannot just have only one perspective. I said three times that there is no evidence - none - to suggest that migrants-----

Comment on this
Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Deputy, we are way over time.

Comment on this

Yes, but the Taoiseach did not take his time. He did not feel it was important enough to respond to me.

Comment on this
Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Thank you, Deputy. The Taoiseach to respond.

Comment on this

I feel that by his response-----

Comment on this
Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Deputy, we are way over time.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Sadly, people from all sorts of backgrounds and of all sorts of genders, races, religions and colours commit crimes. To conflate crime and violence against women, in particular, with migration is profoundly wrong and profoundly dangerous.

Comment on this

I did not do that.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Yes, you did.

Comment on this

Do not misquote me.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Yes, you did, Deputy.

Comment on this

Three times I said there is no evidence.

Comment on this
Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Deputy, please.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

In relation to-----

Comment on this
Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Deputy, please let the Taoiseach respond.

Comment on this

I cannot be misquoted by the Taoiseach when I make a reasonable comment.

Comment on this
Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Deputy, let the Taoiseach respond, uninterrupted.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

In relation to the Deputy's remarks about me, I have engaged in this debate. I probably engage in it every other day in my constituency, in this House and in the media. Only a few weeks ago, I wrote a detailed article, published in the Sunday Independent, setting out what our immigration policy is and was, what the facts were and what they were not. I will keep doing that, but I need a bit of help. I need a bit of help from people in this House-----

Comment on this

I am trying to give it to you.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

No, you are not. Sorry, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.

Comment on this